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Maps distort how we see the world

unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com

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Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#141

Post by m2fkxy »

zokier wrote: post #84
eddythompson80 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every flat map projection distorts something, so every projection has to optimize some parameter and trade off other utility. I'm constantly amazed at how hung up people are on apparent size of countries. If size is your thing, use some other projection! That's the point of the post. The trade-offs between different projections are rarely discussed, considered or even mentioned outside very small cohorts because th…

> Out of the millions of decorative world maps on walls, kids with maps to learn the world, world maps on the news, maps used in data visualization charts etc., non of those are using the map for "navigation" yet they still use Mercator projection simply because "that's the right shape of the world" regardless of what "right" means I question what percentage of those maps in reality are actually Mercator? I feel this…

Agree. Most of the general-public wall maps I see out there use equal-area projs.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#142

Post by ralusek »

randcraw wrote: post #10

There was a memorable scene from "The West Wing" on the biases imposed by most map projections, in particular, how Mercator makes North America look huge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLqC3FNNOaI

This clip is always hilarious to me. Smugly declares "it's where you've been living this whole time," as he stands in front of a projection that is just as flawed, as all projections are, as the Mercator. The only priority of that map projection is attempting to account for the accurate area of landmasses, sacrificing correct shape of landmasses, as well as a ton of navigational utility.

A globe is the only correct projection, and I have personally never looked at a globe and thought "Wow, I've been deceived!" Google maps now even switches to trying to do a globe projection when you zoom out far enough.

This is a ridiculous issue for smug people to bring up at parties.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#144

Post by NoRelToEmber »

yunohn wrote: post #134
prepend wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe more accurate is that there wasn’t some nefarious bias that was meant to oppress people. Europe was at the center because they made the maps. It’s a simple reason. If some other culture has been dominant we’d be using a projection that makes it more useful for them.

The vast majority of items are manufactured in Asia now, especially globes. By your logic, should they unilaterally start printing Asia in the center?

Unilaterally? If they want to use maps that center Asia in their education and work, who is stopping them? In fact I'd wager they start their education by learning about the geography of Asia first.

I'm puzzled by this demonization of simply observing the world from the perspective of one's own culture. Blaming Europeans for putting Europe in the center of their maps is like blaming Italians for teaching Italian in school, and not some globally-representative language (maybe English or Chinese) chosen without local "bias".

Though your mention of "especially globes" has me wondering how they would place Asia in the center of a globe...

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#145

Post by dahwolf »

I'm from the Netherlands and just saw our tiny land shrink even further. Although I suppose it's a stretch to call this swampy river delta actual land.

Anyway, I've personally experienced the shock of the true size of Africa. Younger me only had a few flights to Spain under my belt and then went on an adventurous trip to South Africa. I figured it would just be a few hours more. How wrong I was.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#146

Post by littlestymaar »

GuB-42 wrote: post #93
eddythompson80 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every flat map projection distorts something, so every projection has to optimize some parameter and trade off other utility. I'm constantly amazed at how hung up people are on apparent size of countries. If size is your thing, use some other projection! That's the point of the post. The trade-offs between different projections are rarely discussed, considered or even mentioned outside very small cohorts because th…

Map projection trade-offs are discussed a lot. I studied it at school, I can't count the number of "do you realize how big country X compared to country Y" articles, (the one linked here is a good one btw) and it often pops up in trivia questions. Everyone has seen a globe, and non-Mercator maps are everywhere. Famously on National Geographics. Also, using a (truncated) Mercator projection for a GDP per capita map (o…

> it tends to enlarge small countries and shrink large countries, which makes for a more readable map.

It enlarges the two biggest countries in the World (Russian and Canada) while shrinking central American and central African countries that aren't particularly big to say the least…

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#147

Post by heikkilevanto »

yunohn wrote: post #134
prepend wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe more accurate is that there wasn’t some nefarious bias that was meant to oppress people. Europe was at the center because they made the maps. It’s a simple reason. If some other culture has been dominant we’d be using a projection that makes it more useful for them.

The vast majority of items are manufactured in Asia now, especially globes. By your logic, should they unilaterally start printing Asia in the center?

Globes?? They do not suffer (much?) from the map projection problem. And no, they should not be printing any part of the world in the center of the globe!

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#148

Post by ubermonkey »

netsharc wrote: post #114
ubermonkey wrote: post #98

If you think only in Mercator (e.g.), it's easy to fall into erroneous concepts. A great example of this came when, years ago, I had a business trip from Texas where I live to Dubai. A friend asked, cleverly aware of the distance involved, if the flight went east or west -- because if you have Flat Map Brain, that's what you default to, right? The answer is "neither." The route went mostly north from Houston, crossed…

This site shows the shortest path between 2 airports: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=IAH-DXB I'd imagine your flight would've avoided Russia, afaik even before the war they were obnoxious about who can fly over them/how much it would cost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdNDYBt9e_U

I've no recollection about flying in Russian airspace, but I definitely did snap a phonecam pic of the seatback map showing us flying between the Elburz mountains and Tehran. This was in 2012, so 11 years ago (per the date of the pic I found).

The path suggested by that position absolutely implies flight over Russian territory, but obviously I have no data beyond that. It seems unlikely that an airliner would, like, zigzag around; n.b. that I was on Emirates, not a US carrier, and Russia (and other countries) probably doesn't treat them like they would an airline run out of a NATO country.

Or, at least, probably didn't in 2012. No idea what the rules are now.

EDIT: I found this article which notes that, at least as of a year ago, Emirates was flying TO Russia, so presumably flights through Russian airspace en route to other places were okay as well before the war.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/emirates-...

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#150

Post by prepend »

yunohn wrote: post #134
prepend wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe more accurate is that there wasn’t some nefarious bias that was meant to oppress people. Europe was at the center because they made the maps. It’s a simple reason. If some other culture has been dominant we’d be using a projection that makes it more useful for them.

The vast majority of items are manufactured in Asia now, especially globes. By your logic, should they unilaterally start printing Asia in the center?

This isn’t my logic, it’s the logic of the map designers.

It’s not important where they are made. It’s important where they are designed.

I expect there’s lots of maps with Asia in the center, but I don’t expect people in the US to buy them.

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