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Moog sells its business to InMusic

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Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#141

Post by scns »

iamben wrote: post #11
scns wrote: post #2

> inMusic isn't free from controversy. Formed in 2012 by Jack O'Donnell, a former vice-president at DJ equipment brand Stanton > Roger Linn, who made many ground-breaking drum machines in the '80s before creating the MPC 60 for Akai, has accused O'Donnell of failing to pay him royalties after acquiring Akai, repeatedly calling him unscrupulous and a "bastard" in interviews. Is it absolutely necessary to fuck people o…

Couple of relevant PG essays: http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html http://www.paulgraham.com/safe.html

Thank you very much.

> Jessica and I have always worked hard to teach our kids not to be mean.

I teach my son to be friendly.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#142

Post by adql »

elihu wrote: post #41
Sosh101 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behringer did release their own "Neutron" (and soon "Proton"), but I generally agree with your points. Also they've cloned Moog gear that's <10 years old.

It would be funny if there was a community effort to make a schematic of the Neutron or Proton, design a board, and have it manufactured at JLCPCB or wherever. Sell it as a kit with all the SMD components already populated, all you have to do is solder in the through-hole jacks and pots and whatever. Use a Eurorack module form factor so it doesn't need an enclosure. Sell it at cost, which would probably be way less t…

Why on earth would someone go thru the effort to sell it at cost thought ?

Also you underestimate economies of scale behringer can employ, I'd be surprised if you could get close to their price.

You can look at various DIY stuff and you will probably notice that getting stuff DIY isn't all that much cheaper

I'll throw you an example:

Maths, which Behringer cloned, costs ~$300 fully assembled

Befaco Rampage, which is pretty much equivalent to Maths, costs $185 in DIY kit.

Behringer Abacus is $100

They are basically selling them at price or below what DIY kit would sell, and not that far off "cost of components"

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#143

Post by elihu »

notmypenguin wrote: post #48
elihu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using as an example of bad behavior one of the best examples of something good that Behringer has done. Those chips should be cloned, and now there are, I believe, at least three manufacturers of 3340 oscillator chips: CEM, Coolaudio, and Alfa. It's a very popular VCO chip in a number of eurorack modules, and has better tracking of volt-per-octave than any other analog VCO type I've used by far. Also, not very…

Tell that to Curtis widow. The goal of this is not magnanimity but to drive other synth makers to bankruptcy with cheap zero R&D synths. I am not speaking out of my behind here. If Behringer succeeds, the world of music gear LOSES. If you want a 3340 clone buy Alfa for half the price and don’t feed CoolAudio

I do use Alfa VCOs (or anyways AI Synthesis does, and I bought the chips through them to build some of their VCO modules), but it seems weird you'd recommend them over CEM, since presumably they're "ripping off" Curtis' design just as much as CoolAudio -- or does Alfa pay a licensing fee to CEM?

You might be right that Behringer is bad for the music industry in other ways and that I shouldn't support them through CoolAudio, but I don't see anything wrong with cloning an old chip. Patents are for a limited time and I think that's a good thing. If CoolAudio made an identical copy of the chip layout, maybe CEM could go after them for copyright violation, but I'm not aware of any claims that CoolAudio did that.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#144

Post by canogat »

monatron wrote: post #92

For a short time Moog curated Moogfest in Asheville and later Raleigh. It was an amazing blend of music, technology, talks, culture, etc. I think it ran into some trouble towards the end of it's run. I ended up going once (solo) after a friend had to bail out last minute. It was one of the most fun and enriching music festivals I've ever attended. I can't imagine it coming back after this news. If anyone knows of any…

Similarly, post-covid, I don’t know if it will come back as good and engaging as it was before, but the Ableton Loop conferences. I went to the one in Los Angeles and bought flights for the one in Berlin that got canceled during the pandemic.

Awesome hands-on sessions and live music. Don’t need to be an Ableton user.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#145

Post by stewarts »

pschuegr wrote: post #70
stuaxo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watched an interview with the rapper DoseOne the other day, he said he still makes records but doesn't engage with the music industry (promoting, gigs etc) as there is too much bullshit, instead he does work in the games industry and cites that as much more sane.

Well that's saying something when the games industry is more sane.

Especially after the Mick Gordon/Doom Eternal situation.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#147

Post by squeaky-clean »

weinzierl wrote: post #25

Never owned one of their synths, but I have one of their expression pedals and I love it. It's also built like a tank, real quality. Hope that does not go away with the sale.

I've got a Sub37. It's heavy as hell (physically and sonically) and has fallen off my keyboard stand onto a concrete stage floor at a rowdy gig. I played the rest of the song with it on the floor, no issues to this day.

There were some issues with the first batch though from what I've read. The filter pot would break because it used a much larger knob, later batches reinforced this.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#148

Post by nebula8804 »

vngzs wrote: post #120
nonstopdev wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if you are making it to the higher echelons of success, you typically have this type of track record. A lot of companies start small by people who like what they do. It’s the business leader or visionary who sees the future and how to apply it on the larger scale usually leaving the loyalty and honor behind and doing what’s best for them and their company.

See the movie Blackberry[0] for a dramatic telling of this. [0]: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/blackberry

Just keep in mind that the movie is supposedly quite unfactual and the characters are portrayed very differently than they were in real life. In fact the co-ceo: Mike Lazaridis seems to want nothing to do with the film.

[1]: Interview with Jim Basille: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_VDXLJA8dA

[2]: ex-blackberry employee reviews film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yuqdr_1iRg

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#149

Post by elihu »

sireat wrote: post #57
notmypenguin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to Curtis widow. The goal of this is not magnanimity but to drive other synth makers to bankruptcy with cheap zero R&D synths. I am not speaking out of my behind here. If Behringer succeeds, the world of music gear LOSES. If you want a 3340 clone buy Alfa for half the price and don’t feed CoolAudio

I did not like Behringer in the 90s when they built their original fortune by violating Mackie patents. However, what is wrong with perfectly cloning a chip whose patents have expired? Analogy would be with a drug whose patents have expired. If generic analogs are available, everone benefits except the original company. Everyone wins, who is the loser here? Curtis family have the right to be upset but they do not hav…

Were they accused of violating patents? I thought that was a copyright/trademark dispute, and the suit failed in part because copyright doesn't protect device manufacturers against competitors making a product with the same schematic. I think that's a good thing.
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