Moog sells its business to InMusic • Hacker News Board

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#121

Post by rjh29 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

x3874 wrote: post #78

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soundwise those are quite poor copies. Behringer are hit and miss on this. They killed it with their Minimoog clones - very, very close to the real hardware - but not so much with some of their later efforts. I have their Pro-One and their K2 and both lack the character and warmth of the originals. They sound like clones. The P800, Solina and Kat all seem very good though. People who accuse Behringer of cloning are m…

> There is a psychopathic edge - like cloning MI's Plaits, which many suspect helped push Émilie out of the business, to everyone's loss. Thats quite some... BS. Gillet intented to exit the audio hardware industry in search of different, greener pastures already way before Brains was released. Also MI code is public, so 'cloning' is a stretch. MI designs were and are being produced by multiple shops.

Behringer attracts more attention. Arturia used MI code in the MicroFreak and falsely claimed they had Gillet's blessing, nobody cared. Arturia make VST clones of every popular synth out and charge $500, nobody cares. Behringer makes an affortable version of the Model D because Moog never bothered to and people complain.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#122

Post by rjh29 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

masukomi wrote: post #76

For anyone who cares about electronic instruments, i really recommend taking the tour of their factory in Asheville NC if you're in the area. It's short, but cool and shows you how the instruments are put together.

For now at least. They'll probably move production to China.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#123

Post by lsy » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #91

ijustlovemath wrote: post #90

I'm guessing this has something to do with how the employees were trying to unionize. RIP Moog, good luck to those employees

Moog was actually employee-owned.

Not really. It's an interesting sidebar how companies use the phrase "employee-owned" to confuse people about who is in charge. Moog had an ESOP which just means the employees held 49% of the shares of stock in the company, as far as I understand without any right to influence operations, which remained fully with the CEO. That's "employee-owned" in the same sense that you "own" my house if you hold securities that are invested in my mortgage, i.e. not at all.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#124

Post by scarecrowbob » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

dimal wrote: post #111

elihu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think hardware analogy synthesizers are going anywhere anytime soon. Moog is probably facing a lot of competition though, and they aren't very active in the Eurorack modular space where a lot of the interesting new stuff is happening. (In particular, a lot of their popular synths, including recently released ones, are being cloned by Behringer.) It would be interesting to know if they were doing great but sol…

I would love it if they made some Eurorack modules. I have a DFAM and love it, but for most equipment I only consider Eurorack. The DFAM has to sit outside my case. The ergonomics of that are weird, and there’s only so much room for desktop equipment.

Couldn't you pull the DFAM and put it in a case? My Mother, at least, is Eurorack.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#125

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:00 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #117

dylan604 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is the saying, but why is Hollywood given the dubious honors? Wouldn't it be just as accurate to say Business Accounting?

Probably because they seem to have the most egregious examples based on works that seem to everyone else to be pretty successful? "the Tolkien estate sued New Line, claiming that their contract entitled them to 7.5% of the gross receipts of the $6 billion hit.[23] According to New Line's accounts, the trilogy made "horrendous losses" and no profit at all." I think most people would find it surprising that both Return…

Points on the gross receipts are not points on the profits.

The fact that the trilogy was supposedly unprofitable shouldn't be relevant.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#126

Post by rj_hoff » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

dimal wrote: post #111

elihu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think hardware analogy synthesizers are going anywhere anytime soon. Moog is probably facing a lot of competition though, and they aren't very active in the Eurorack modular space where a lot of the interesting new stuff is happening. (In particular, a lot of their popular synths, including recently released ones, are being cloned by Behringer.) It would be interesting to know if they were doing great but sol…

I would love it if they made some Eurorack modules. I have a DFAM and love it, but for most equipment I only consider Eurorack. The DFAM has to sit outside my case. The ergonomics of that are weird, and there’s only so much room for desktop equipment.

Isn't the DFAM eurorack compatable? I seem to recall being able to take it out of its case and plug a 12pin into it and it just works.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#127

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:02 PM UTC

Tarq0n wrote: post #87

iamben wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of relevant PG essays: http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html http://www.paulgraham.com/safe.html

This is an odd framing. Causing harm doesn't require malice, in fact most businesses larger than Dunbar's number in employees aren't really driven by affect or emotion at all, but by people all weakly following incentives. The externalities of this behavior is where people get harmed, without ever requiring the intent to do so from anyone within the business. My thesis is that malicious behavior by executives is in s…

Of course it's not intentional - mostly. But if harm occurs, there should still be legal and personal liability for it.

Otherwise you have the "Just following orders" excuse.

This isn't an academic issue. Corporate harms are pervasive, very real, and hugely destructive to the economy and to the well-being of (at least) hundreds of millions.

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#128

Post by arethuza » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #125

arethuza wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because they seem to have the most egregious examples based on works that seem to everyone else to be pretty successful? "the Tolkien estate sued New Line, claiming that their contract entitled them to 7.5% of the gross receipts of the $6 billion hit.[23] According to New Line's accounts, the trilogy made "horrendous losses" and no profit at all." I think most people would find it surprising that both Return…

Points on the gross receipts are not points on the profits. The fact that the trilogy was supposedly unprofitable shouldn't be relevant.

Yes, I should really have read that more carefully!

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#129

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

JodieBenitez wrote: post #72

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soundwise those are quite poor copies. Behringer are hit and miss on this. They killed it with their Minimoog clones - very, very close to the real hardware - but not so much with some of their later efforts. I have their Pro-One and their K2 and both lack the character and warmth of the originals. They sound like clones. The P800, Solina and Kat all seem very good though. People who accuse Behringer of cloning are m…

> Soundwise those are quite poor copies. No they're not... at least on the clones I have, they nailed it. And yes I have the originals.

Some people keep saying this, but I can hear a very clear difference.

It's like people who say that Arturia's VSTs are exactly like the real thing - to which I can only say "Huh???"

Re: Moog sells its business to InMusic

#130

Post by adql » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

SSLy wrote: post #28

elihu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think hardware analogy synthesizers are going anywhere anytime soon. Moog is probably facing a lot of competition though, and they aren't very active in the Eurorack modular space where a lot of the interesting new stuff is happening. (In particular, a lot of their popular synths, including recently released ones, are being cloned by Behringer.) It would be interesting to know if they were doing great but sol…

Behringer clones modular synth modules too. https://www.gearnews.com/behringer-abacus-lets-do-the-maths/

Compared to how original looked that's fucking improvement, original have indecipherable panel if you don't already know how it works.

But yeah, I wish that they at least tried to improve upon original instead of blatant copy