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Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

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Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#91

Post by paulryanrogers »

randomdata wrote: post #69
ethbr0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Companies hate unions because they increase labor costs and benefits. Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest? Unions have their faults (e.g. bureaucracy), but corporations aren't fighting them for their employees' benefit.

> Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest? Sure. What do the C-suite employees stand to gain from it other than a whole new set of headaches when they have to deal with the union?

Ideally more consistent and reliable workers, since they should be less likely to need multiple jobs to cover healthcare and rent.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#92

Post by hourago »

antiutopian wrote: post #87

Once you start following/helping/participating in the labor movement it becomes clear that virtually every company will go to great lengths to stop a union from being formed and winning a contract, they will even break the law. The question for organizers is not "will this company do it?" but "what do we do about it when they do?"

> they will even break the law

This is probably true in the USA, as that laws seem to not be enforced. But if you enforce employee's protection laws companies will respect them.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#93

Post by wahnfrieden »

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Sounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not have been doing anyway.

They’ve done so by breaking the law

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#94

Post by paulryanrogers »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #34
ethbr0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Companies hate unions because they increase labor costs and benefits. Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest? Unions have their faults (e.g. bureaucracy), but corporations aren't fighting them for their employees' benefit.

Well, Walmart non union workers still have their jobs while the ones that did unionize all lost theirs.

Non-union workers get to keep their jobs with pay so low many need food stamps to survive. I think everyone loses, even the shareholders as the market for Walmart wares shrinks.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#95

Post by pmichaud »

lscdlscd wrote: post #2

Just goes to show how effective unionizing is. Power to those workers! They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world. They deserve a fair share.

I don't think it shows this. I think it shows that companies expect unions to be a huge pain in the ass that they would go out of their way to avoid (even illegally), but it doesn't follow that unions are therefore effective at their stated purpose for the workers. That may or may not be the case.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#96

Post by beepbooptheory »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #67
beepbooptheory wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it does say the certain stores, like St. Louis, have given up due to Apple's antagonism, it also says: "Union efforts are slowly gaining ground at Apple stores across the country." Precedent like this can help future efforts in other places, at the very least. And in general, little back and forth events like this is maybe the best we can hope for in this world where actual worker leadership/autonomism is farth…

But wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"

Maybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want.

In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right.

Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#97

Post by hourago »

nonethewiser wrote: post #18
JimtheCoder wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world." ...

Virtually all companies oppose unionization. Am I to believe that all these companies are doing so out of sheer incompetence?

> Virtually all companies oppose unionization.

In the USA. It is different in other countries, it could be better in the USA also.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#98

Post by wahnfrieden »

j_walter wrote: post #64
Aunche wrote: post #58

I know I should be on the side of union organizers, but it's difficult to sympathize with them when they simultaneously try to portray themselves as David fighting Goliath, but also portray themselves as helpless victims when they get their flyers are taken down during break rooms and made to watch presentations.

I don't see a specific mention of what exactly they did that was violating the law. Employers are allowed to talk to their employees about why they don't think a union is in the best interest of everyone involved. You are right though, it won't be a popular opinion, but a union's strength should not be impacted by taking down fliers in a break room. There are also laws saying that the company can't lie to employees a…

[flagged]

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#99

Post by j16sdiz »

lscdlscd wrote: post #2

Just goes to show how effective unionizing is. Power to those workers! They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world. They deserve a fair share.

Meanwhile in China, all union except the state-driven ones are illegal.

Deng Xiaoping took away the right to go onstrike because "the communist party is owned by the worker and represents the best interest of the workers".

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#100

Post by joker99 »

hourago wrote: post #92
antiutopian wrote: post #87

Once you start following/helping/participating in the labor movement it becomes clear that virtually every company will go to great lengths to stop a union from being formed and winning a contract, they will even break the law. The question for organizers is not "will this company do it?" but "what do we do about it when they do?"

> they will even break the law This is probably true in the USA, as that laws seem to not be enforced. But if you enforce employee's protection laws companies will respect them.

Most of them will. Some will still try to find a way around them or look for loop holes. But yes, the fact that most of them will respect them is a major win
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