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Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

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Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#471

Post by steveBK123 »

eric_cc wrote: post #464
steveBK123 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do gift cards go up & down 50% in a year and have large transaction costs?

when you say up and down you are referring to buying power. And yes, the buying power of a $20 grocery store gift card has gone way down the last few years. Consider how much milk and eggs you could buy in 2018 compared to today.

Gift cards are tethered to the dollar, with a discount, because they are essentialy unsecured loans to the gift card issuer.

I also would point out that very few if any people would point to gift cards as a durable store of value and new world currency.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#472

Post by steveBK123 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #439
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you have to explain why gift cards are worth something. The answer is, because someone will give you something for them. Meanwhile there are a large number of entities that have already entered into long-term contracts denominated in cryptocurrencies and any of them would pay you something for it when they need to satisfy their obligations. That doesn't mean the value never changes, but that's also true of g…

> But then you have to explain why gift cards are worth something gift cards are vouchers You pay $30 to the store so that someone else can spend the $30 in that store. It's a certificate, not a currency, not a store of value.

its a loan to the card issuer

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#473

Post by eric_cc »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #468
eric_cc wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s “buying power”

gift card noun [ C ] uk /ˈɡɪft ˌkɑːd/ us /ˈɡɪft ˌkɑːrd/ a card that can be exchanged in a shop or on a website for goods or services of the value that is printed on it it's literally the same thing as cash, a check or a voucher. it is also entirely dependent on the same external factors of cash, vouchers and checks: inflation, exchange rates, etc. because it's simply a certification that you can spend that amount of…

I’d counter that buying power is the only metric that matters. All these abstractions of buying power may distract and distance you from this most important metric - often to the benefit of companies and nation states.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#474

Post by eric_cc »

steveBK123 wrote: post #471
eric_cc wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you say up and down you are referring to buying power. And yes, the buying power of a $20 grocery store gift card has gone way down the last few years. Consider how much milk and eggs you could buy in 2018 compared to today.

Gift cards are tethered to the dollar, with a discount, because they are essentialy unsecured loans to the gift card issuer. I also would point out that very few if any people would point to gift cards as a durable store of value and new world currency.

Totally agree. I only meant to illustrate that all abstractions of buying power fluctuate in their ability to secure basic needs - food, water, shelter, supplies.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#475

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

delecti wrote: post #219
ithinkso wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they can bury the gold and refuse to tell where...

But that gold isn't usable until retrieved. Cryptocurrency is (at least theoretically) just as usable while remaining unseizable.

not if you're in prison without internet access.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#476

Post by peoplefromibiza »

eric_cc wrote: post #473
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gift card noun [ C ] uk /ˈɡɪft ˌkɑːd/ us /ˈɡɪft ˌkɑːrd/ a card that can be exchanged in a shop or on a website for goods or services of the value that is printed on it it's literally the same thing as cash, a check or a voucher. it is also entirely dependent on the same external factors of cash, vouchers and checks: inflation, exchange rates, etc. because it's simply a certification that you can spend that amount of…

I’d counter that buying power is the only metric that matters. All these abstractions of buying power may distract and distance you from this most important metric - often to the benefit of companies and nation states.

> I’d counter that buying power is the only metric that matters

I'd counter that protection of buying power over long periods is what really matters.

My CD collection had an enormous buying power in the 90s, now it's almost worthless.

I reckon one cannot rely on buying power of CD or DVD or VHS.

> often to the benefit of companies and nation states.

In this regards people, companies and nation states interests are usually aligned, i.e a stable currency that provides protection against wild fluctuations and retains its buying power and its usefulness.

Unless you are an enemy of the people, I don't see why someone should not like it.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#477

Post by evandale »

wolverine876 wrote: post #396
evandale wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash has been used for facilitating crime since currency was invented and it will always be far easier to commit crimes with cash than with anything else and that will never change until humans find a better way to fund crime. Bitcoin may be an attempt to make funding crime easier but it hasn't been very successful. USD is still king for funding any criminal endeavors.

> Cash has been used for facilitating crime since currency was invented How is that relevant? Silver and papyrus were once popular too. > it will always be far easier to commit crimes with cash than with anything else It's not easy if I want to pay someone who isn't local to me, or whom I don't want to meet in person, or if I don't want to possess physical criminal assets. > it will always be far easier to commit cri…

wolverine876: The question is whether crypto in particular facilitates crime, and it does.

evandale: Cash has been used for facilitating crime since currency was invented

wolverine876: How is that relevant?

The question obviously isn't whether crypto facilitates crime because USD facilitates crime better. If the ability to facilitate crime was a question of whether you should use a currency or not then we wouldn't be using USD anymore.

> It's not easy if I want to pay someone who isn't local to me, or whom I don't want to meet in person, or if I don't want to possess physical criminal assets.

No idea what you're trying to say here but it doesn't seem like you're arguing in good faith. Everybody will accept USD for any good or service anywhere in the world and USD is less traceable and more anonymous than bitcoin which defeats another "bitcoin is only used for crime" argument. No. It isn't only used for crime. It's actually a terrible thing to use for crime because of how traceable it is.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#478

Post by eric_cc »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #470
eric_cc wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BTC added no value to the retail experience. You’re missing the point entirely. Bitcoin will gain usability parity with the US dollar. And bitcoin is a better currency that anything mutable and controlled by governments. Bitcoin is a currency that is not subject to the whims of unpredictable central government financial policies. Bitcoin’s buying power fluctuates because we are still dealing with The Fed monetary p…

> Aside from violence (US military), what is the US dollar’s features that make it better than bitcoin in any way? using USD doesn't make me look like a criminal or a scammer. And it actually work and is useful for everything that isn't shady. Oh, yeah, almost forgot: I can go to a bank and ask for a loan in USD that I can then use to buy a house, start a business, go on a trip, instead of risking of losing everythin…

[flagged]

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#479

Post by delecti »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #475
delecti wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that gold isn't usable until retrieved. Cryptocurrency is (at least theoretically) just as usable while remaining unseizable.

not if you're in prison without internet access.

I feel like surely yours isn't a point made in good faith, because the point I'm trying to make is so simple.

If I've got $20 bill or a gold bar in my pocket, I can use it at the store if I can get to the store, but someone could easily confiscate it from me. If I have a $20 bill or gold bar buried in the woods behind my house, it can't be easily confiscated from me, but I can't use that at the store, even aside from whether I can access a store. If I have a cryptocurrency wallet, I can use it in the hypothetical cryptocurrency store if I can access it, and it also cannot be easily confiscated from me (assuming reasonable security measures).

The real criticism is "what cryptocurrency store?" and that's the real reason cryptocurrency isn't very useful. I'm not arguing that cryptocurrency is good or useful, I'm arguing very narrowly for one specific point: "owning cryptocurrency" is more like knowing something than it is like possessing something.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#480

Post by steveBK123 »

eric_cc wrote: post #474
steveBK123 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gift cards are tethered to the dollar, with a discount, because they are essentialy unsecured loans to the gift card issuer. I also would point out that very few if any people would point to gift cards as a durable store of value and new world currency.

Totally agree. I only meant to illustrate that all abstractions of buying power fluctuate in their ability to secure basic needs - food, water, shelter, supplies.

And the "tethered to the dollar" part is important. They are basically liquidity/risk discounted dollars, as are many of these examples of "buying power".

No one is tethering their Rolex price to BTC. No one is tethering their home purchase budget to BTC.

Why? It's all tethered to your income, in dollars, and your savings presumably mostly in dollars as well.

Even "jug of water in the desert" is tethered more to dollars than BTC because what are you more likely to have in your pocket, and why?

Dollars are tethered to the government taxing us in dollars, so we get paid in dollars, and our government has nukes & aircraft carriers and such. Everything then gets tethered to it because thats what we get paid & save in.

BTC is tethered to nothing, and there is no natural value you can back into such that you can justify any price level of it.

Other than its usefulness as "untraceable" (what people think, but not what is true.. it is more like "unblockable") cash, and for money laundering/drugs.. it is a trading instrument for punters.

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