Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

engadget.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 178 posts

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#61

Post by boeingUH60 »

pierat wrote: post #39
nonethewiser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually all companies oppose unionization. Am I to believe that all these companies are doing so out of sheer incompetence?

These companies need to remember that NLRB and unionization was an agreement to take harsh violence off the table. In the old days, when First International and IWW was created, unionization efforts were to "set the bosses house on fire, with them in it", "pass out rifles to all workers and shoot up the bosses house", assaults, bombs.. you name it. That's also where we have the paramilitary force, Pinkertons. They we…

Will you be the first to raise your guns and go to prison after?

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#62

Post by birdyrooster »

treeman79 wrote: post #35
93po wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest? Yes, usually at least half the workforce. But but but the monthly dues!!!

[flagged]

This completely ignores globalization and the fact it was geopolitics that took the jobs away.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

Kiro wrote: post #54
ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stores are a pretty critical component in their sales, marketing, and support cycles, and generally considered a big part of their current success.

I don't think so. Apple Stores are mostly a US thing.

That's Apple's largest market, with 40% of sales.

They have stores in 26 countries.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#64

Post by j_walter »

Aunche wrote: post #58

I know I should be on the side of union organizers, but it's difficult to sympathize with them when they simultaneously try to portray themselves as David fighting Goliath, but also portray themselves as helpless victims when they get their flyers are taken down during break rooms and made to watch presentations.

I don't see a specific mention of what exactly they did that was violating the law. Employers are allowed to talk to their employees about why they don't think a union is in the best interest of everyone involved.

You are right though, it won't be a popular opinion, but a union's strength should not be impacted by taking down fliers in a break room. There are also laws saying that the company can't lie to employees about what a union could mean, but unions are not held to the same standard.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#65

Post by derelicta »

johngladtj wrote: post #44
derelicta wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argument makes sense if you conveniently forget it's workers in the first place who created the company's wealth.

The workers didn't create the wealth. The owners did. The workers sold their time and labor, and we're compensated according to what they negotiated. Why should they be entitled to anything more?

Try running a factory without its workers. Or a bar without its bartenders. Or a software company without its software developpers.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#66

Post by j_walter »

myspy wrote: post #50
johngladtj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The workers didn't create the wealth. The owners did. The workers sold their time and labor, and we're compensated according to what they negotiated. Why should they be entitled to anything more?

The owners wouldn't have been able to make more out of their company without others working for them. So yes, they did create the wealth. The owners could've died at some point and the company still would create the wealth. Up until to a certain point it takes those owners but it's a synergy.

The workers could die at some point too, they will be replaced by new workers and no one would notice the difference. When do you notice the difference...when the owners or the top management are changed and the company strategy changes...not when a new iStore employee gets hired.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#67

Post by sidewndr46 »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #10
LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Sounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not have been doing anyway.

While it does say the certain stores, like St. Louis, have given up due to Apple's antagonism, it also says: "Union efforts are slowly gaining ground at Apple stores across the country." Precedent like this can help future efforts in other places, at the very least. And in general, little back and forth events like this is maybe the best we can hope for in this world where actual worker leadership/autonomism is farth…

But wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#68

Post by wjnc »

junofan wrote: post #57
pierat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These companies need to remember that NLRB and unionization was an agreement to take harsh violence off the table. In the old days, when First International and IWW was created, unionization efforts were to "set the bosses house on fire, with them in it", "pass out rifles to all workers and shoot up the bosses house", assaults, bombs.. you name it. That's also where we have the paramilitary force, Pinkertons. They we…

Come on, nobody’s bombing Tim Cook’s house for flexible work schedules and paid parental leave at the Apple Store.

He is referring to the situation before / at the time unionization started. Modern unions are a peaceful reminder of the struggle for union rights. The US is pretty lonely among western nations in its treatment of workers right to organize and collectively bargain.

Not that I’m fully endorsing unions. In my particular part of the world (Netherlands) unions lack broad support but are the only laborers party bargaining collective labour agreements. The good thing is that those agreements are inclusive. The fun is where the unions members interest differ from genpop. You get things like union contributions paid for by employers, or worse like agreements that favor the old whom are more likely to be a member.

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#69

Post by randomdata »

ethbr0 wrote: post #17
lscdlscd wrote: post #2

Just goes to show how effective unionizing is. Power to those workers! They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world. They deserve a fair share.

Indeed. Companies hate unions because they increase labor costs and benefits. Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest? Unions have their faults (e.g. bureaucracy), but corporations aren't fighting them for their employees' benefit.

> Does anyone really think corporate anti-union talking points are in their workers' best interest?

Sure. What do the C-suite employees stand to gain from it other than a whole new set of headaches when they have to deal with the union?

Re: Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store

#70

Post by deelowe »

brookside wrote: post #33
balozi wrote: post #23

Why doe Apple maintain retail stores anyway?

Having a place to go when one has a tech issue is a huge value addition for many Apple users. Repairs can be expensive (the solutions will lean towards "replace the entire motherboard"). But help at the genius bar from a real human can also be free. Compare this experience of what options one has if a hardware issue, or some software question, with a dell laptop. Availability of help at Apple stores is one reason I s…

Doesn't Apple make good money on their "genius bar" services?
Post reply on HN