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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#831

Post by grepfru_it »

csb6 wrote: post #618
slushh wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it could be carried out by classification societies So everything already worked as intended. The tourists didn't bother to check the classification or if they did, were willing to dive anyways. The 737 MAX shows that government involvement is not enough. Likewise doping shows that a legal framework is not enough to prevent advanced cheating. >Personally, I think it ought to be illegal to misrepresent your service’s…

> The tourists didn't bother to check the classification or if they did, were willing to dive anyways. My comment was suggesting that the U.S. government require that a business has a certification from an approved classification society in order to conduct a submersible tourism business. This does not seem to be the law currently since OceanGate is allowed to operate without any. > The 737 MAX shows that government…

>No regulations will prevent all accidents, but I would say the rarity of fatal air accidents in the U.S. in recent decades is partly due to the high standards enforced by the FAA.

Because the FAA has reporting requirements for any abnormal flight behavior which causes deviation. They literally prevent future accidents by analyzing past behavior.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#832

Post by CamperBob2 »

Eisenstein wrote: post #756
miracle2k wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This controller is a metaphor for something that needs to immediately be regulated so that people like this can never get away with it again. There is something to be said for protecting people who would sign up for such an experience while misjudging the risk, or assuming that some government agency does provide oversight. Though, customers seem to have been informed that this is not the case: https://twitter.com/…

Sorry but that doesn't work in a reasonable society. You can't let just anyone do anything they want with the repercussions being 'they don't get rescued'. A few points: * You can't let rescue services decide who deserves to be rescued -- for so many obvious reasons it would be patronizing to list them * People with a lot of money and no sense can fuck things up on a massive scale if we let them do whatever they want…

I suspect this loss will be as effective as any regulation. Nobody will get on board one of these subs without doing a lot more due diligence than the present customers did. And if they do, well, that's on them.

Believe it or not, new laws aren't always the answer. You can't bubble-wrap the world and you will make it a worse place for everyone if you try.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#833

Post by _9omd »

Honestly using an off the shelf gaming controller isn’t crazy, even military subs have used them for certain applications. But why on earth would you chose this controller when you can get a much more reliable wired Xbox controller for 80 bucks. This poor design chose makes me question their judgement during the design process.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#834

Post by twic »

sn41 wrote: post #757
rob74 wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of the controller is symptomatic of their attitude, but I agree that it's probably not as relevant as, say, using an untested (and apparently untestable) carbon fiber hull: > Lochridge’s concerns mainly focused on the company’s decision to rely on sensitive acoustic monitoring – cracking or popping sounds made by the hull under pressure – to detect flaws, rather than a scan of the hull. Lochridge said the com…

Interesting... This is similar to the concerns that Vince Weldon, the Boeing engineer had over the 787 Dreamliner hull made of composites: that flaws could not be found by a visual scan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Weldon

I have a carbon fibre fork on my bike. I had a low-speed accident a few years ago, and took the bike to a mechanic to get it checked out afterwards. He said he'd checked everything, and it was fine - except the fork, which he had no way of telling if was undamaged or about to fail. I think i'll get steel next time.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#835

Post by phpisthebest »

major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

>> You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis,

Like with most things, extremes in either direction is bad, I think there is a middle ground between using logitech controllers, and being sooo paralyzing on safety (or rather the bureaucracy of "Safety™") that not only do you never really get off the ground, but come full circle and a $0.50 o ring you failed to test in freezing conditions blows up your entire rocket even after you spent millions having human read your C code...

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#836

Post by Eisenstein »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #832
Eisenstein wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but that doesn't work in a reasonable society. You can't let just anyone do anything they want with the repercussions being 'they don't get rescued'. A few points: * You can't let rescue services decide who deserves to be rescued -- for so many obvious reasons it would be patronizing to list them * People with a lot of money and no sense can fuck things up on a massive scale if we let them do whatever they want…

I suspect this loss will be as effective as any regulation. Nobody will get on board one of these subs without doing a lot more due diligence than the present customers did. And if they do, well, that's on them. Believe it or not, new laws aren't always the answer. You can't bubble-wrap the world and you will make it a worse place for everyone if you try.

I didn't say anything about making new laws. I am proposing that our society is heading in the wrong direction by lionizing people who take stupid risks and win.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#837

Post by ekianjo »

eropple wrote: post #372
ekianjo wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything working should be the goal It's probably the goal, but complex endeavors mean you need to iterate to get there

The iteration has already been done . Safety rules exist because somebody has died and had it written in their blood. Failure to read the literature gets people killed. This is reckless and it is stupid and excusemaking for it has no moral grounds.

> The iteration has already been done.

Excuse me, there are several companies operating submarines that visit the Titanic with tourists?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#838

Post by jve »

SillyUsername wrote: post #718

You have to wonder why many migrants in Europe go missing at sea on rickety barges on a regular basis and they call off a few search boats in 24 hours. 5 Billionaires go missing on a rickety sub and multiple nations respond with everything they have. Double standards much?

Don't think so... Rescue ops worry people and everyone tries to help.

- Some kid lost in my country? Resources deployed for search, community helps, hundreds if not thousands do the land sweeping.

- Remember boys stuck in thailand cave? Whole world was trying to help.

- Just a moment ago plane crashed in amazon, killing adults, leaving 4 kids. Massive search effort they say was underway - 150 soldiers, dogs not knowing if they are alive - until found after 40 days. Not everyone can help there, you have to know the jungle and the dangers.

- Apollo 13 - I read that the whole world was holding the breath.

Looks like the more complex the rescue, the more popular it is in the news, the more everyone tries to do something about it.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#839

Post by troupe »

Xbox controllers are regularly used by the military for controlling all kinds of things. I've seen them for UAVs, submersibles, equipment on subs, etc. Using off the shelf components like that is common so I'm not sure why this is particularly noteworthy. Of all the things they may have done wrong with the Titan, the controller probably isn't on the list.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#840

Post by CamperBob2 »

Eisenstein wrote: post #836
CamperBob2 wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this loss will be as effective as any regulation. Nobody will get on board one of these subs without doing a lot more due diligence than the present customers did. And if they do, well, that's on them. Believe it or not, new laws aren't always the answer. You can't bubble-wrap the world and you will make it a worse place for everyone if you try.

I didn't say anything about making new laws. I am proposing that our society is heading in the wrong direction by lionizing people who take stupid risks and win.

Yeah, I'm mostly addressing truemotive's knee-jerk post above.

Let's at least wait for the failure analysis reports before calling for congressional hearings. In other words, don't send a lawyer to do an engineer's job.

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