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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#711

Post by heavyset_go »

truemotive wrote: post #702
heavyset_go wrote: post #699

There was a BBC special on this submarine, and it features that $30 Logitech gamepad extensively. At one point they were at the bottom of the sea and the gamepad just stops working, as in the mapping of the gamepad keys to the controls of the sub weren't working correctly. They were stuck spinning around in circles on the sea floor. The owner, on a boat in the middle of the ocean, had to call whoever it was that set…

Both of these videos went private apparently, I'd really like to see this doc.

I'll see if I can find a mirror, the show is "BBC Travel - Take Me to Titanic" if you're able to access BBC content in your country.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#712

Post by aembleton »

Ratiofarmings wrote: post #696
tredre3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

Also assuming that weight isn't an issue, the controller being $30 makes redundancy easy. Just like every other kid playing video games, simply have a second one in case the first one fails. It's small, cheap and replaced in seconds.

It's also wireless. Do they have an easy way of pairing a new controller?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#713

Post by prmoustache »

greiskul wrote: post #564
cachvico wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you _know_ they had spare controllers?

Yes. In a 2022 interview with CBC, Rush added the Bluetooth game controllers were durable — “it’s meant for a 16 year old to throw it around,” he said, tossing the controller to the floor — and that they kept spares on board “just in case.” https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/06/20/video-game-co... Also, the controllers appear to be only to control the periscope. Which is not a critical component of this submari…

Having spares is one thing. The question is do they test spares on a regular basis, make sure they have been charged between every mission and rotate them to test battery life?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#714

Post by jacquesm »

mcpackieh wrote: post #226
Strom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

> Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. You know that saying that anybody can build a bridge, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands? From what I've seen and heard, Logitech has used their experience to make peripherals that barely last longer than the warranty/return period. FWIW my 22 year old optical intellimouse from Microsoft is still…

From what I've seen Logitech stuff is next to indestructible (believe me I've tried).

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#715

Post by thrashh »

ethbr0 wrote: post #51
addaon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and what would that change? Suitability for purpose. Some obvious ones: Defined and validated environmentals (temperature, voltage, and in this case pressure). Qualified components — capacitors chosen for lifetime rather than shaving a cent, perhaps avoidance of MEMS oscillators with helium sensitivity. Failure analysis. Low and understood probability of fail-unsafe conditions (short circuit), mitigation for those…

Yes, if one had the budget to do all those things, from scratch, better than an existing component manufacturer. Not many companies have NASA levels of "throw money at it until it works, and every part has been signed off on five times." Absent that, I'm having trouble seeing how custom > COTS. In all probability, anything in-house would have been worse and added new failure modes. Better to buy, analyze, and adapt a…

I get using COTS but the decisions for this submarine would indicate that they have no grasp of the concept of failure modes.

Decisions like using a 3rd party controller (known to be terrible), a wireless controller (introducing a lot of extra risk from batteries to connection problems), and a door that cannot be opened from the inside (what if they get lost but manage to surface?) are all very sus.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#716

Post by baq »

scns wrote: post #184
Strom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

Logitech has a lot of experience, i give you that. My MX518 lasted over 10 years, many other owners reported the same. More recent products by them die often before five years of use. Perverse incentives, news at 11. Sorry for the snark.

I've replaced the 518 with a g300 (I think) and while it was a good mouse, it broke down way too quick for my liking. Now a happy user of a deathadder hyperspeed.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#717

Post by kumarvvr »

JDW1023 wrote: post #17

> According to the BBC, the entire sub is bolted shut from the outside, so even if the vessel surfaces, the occupants cannot escape without outside assistance and could suffocate within the capsule. Why is the submarine bolted shut from the outside?

Because making reliable doors that are leak proof under enormous pressures is very very difficult.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#718

Post by SillyUsername »

You have to wonder why many migrants in Europe go missing at sea on rickety barges on a regular basis and they call off a few search boats in 24 hours.

5 Billionaires go missing on a rickety sub and multiple nations respond with everything they have.

Double standards much?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#719

Post by sundvor »

twbarr wrote: post #91
tredre3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

There's a middle ground between "hardware store crap" and "custom." The aviation industry has plenty of standard interior lighting and environmental control system that's known not to light people on fire or short out or otherwise fail and kill somebody. https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/busin... These are still COTS products.

If you were to believed the movies, the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS Flight Stick is the most common input method on any flying vehicle. :)

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#720

Post by danbruc »

truemotive wrote: post #681
major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

I'm really frustrated by anyone that poo-poos this specific issue. One shall absolutely fucking obsess, me for instance about the game controller they used. Look at this. https://i.imgur.com/FrdR7TP.png So the F710 Logitech gamepad was something I wouldn't even trust as a teenager to let me play emulated retro games accurately. It has a hardware switch to toggle between DirectInput (an ancient input technology within…

They decided to further mod the controller for no reason with longer sticks, maybe to make it look less like the toy it is which actually reduces the dead spot response of an analog joystick. Why? What the fuck.

I would assume to allow more precise control - longer sticks will give you a smaller input for the same amount of travel and require more travel to achieve the same input.

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