Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 1001 posts

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#561

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

ghostpepper wrote: post #461
mcpherrinm wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are latching onto the logitech controller, but I think it's low on my concerns list. Controllers are relatively robust, and they stated they had backups, and could surface without any control input by manually dumping the ballast. Much more concerning are the potential flaws in the carbon fiber hull, as disclosed during the David Lochridge lawsuit (mentioned in another thread), the rumoured lack of surface rad…

Just to nit pick, what good is an exit going to do at 12,000 feet?

Currently, even if they could surface, they couldn't get out of the vessel because it's locked from the outside

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#562

Post by elsonrodriguez »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #301
xenadu02 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hardly think that is fair. Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. They use off the shelf airbags and brakes. Their software on the steering, braking, etc control loops are more or less standard for embedded vehicle systems. The linux PC running the touch screen is not the system controlling the brakes. The failure modes for a vehicle are also a lot simpler than a sub. If the interior st…

> Tesla hasn't re-invented the wheel on life-critical safety systems. Haven't they? They've removed radar from their cars and now the AEB system uses image recognition. Does any other manufacturer do that?

Subaru's system has been using stereoscopic cameras for years.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#563

Post by xpe »

brutusborn wrote: post #404
reaperman wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a difference between Jacques Cousteau building a janky submarine rig for himself vs. Creating a business model of selling tickets to random strangers on that janky submarine.

There is definitely a difference, but it doesn’t really matter philosophically speaking. If people want to take huge risks, then so be it. Whether they build the sub themselves or pay and give that responsibility to a proxy, it is still up to them to make their own risk assessment.

>> There’s a difference between Jacques Cousteau building a janky submarine rig for himself vs. Creating a business model of selling tickets to random strangers on that janky submarine.

> There is definitely a difference, but it doesn’t really matter philosophically speaking.

I'm unconvinced. The phrase "philosophically speaking" is very vague. Which philosoph(y/ies)?

> If people want to take huge risks, then so be it.

You didn't say who is affected by said risks. Only the person taking the huge risk? What about externalities? "Huge" risks would include an existential threat to an individual and thus anyone who knows or depends on them.

> Whether they build the sub themselves or pay and give that responsibility to a proxy, it is still up to them to make their own risk assessment.

Sounds like we're in the domains of legal and/or moral philosophy. The phrase "up to them" suggests a responsibility, a kind of normative claim. Perhaps a responsibility to make wise decisions? Perhaps a responsibility that cannot be transferred or delegated?

Using the phrase "philosophically speaking" invites these kinds of questions, particularly when the underlying philosophy is unsaid and its reasoning unclear.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#564

Post by greiskul »

cachvico wrote: post #555
greiskul wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had spare controllers. Part of the idea of using off the shelf components like this, is the ease of replacement. If you have a 100k controller, and it fails, you need to think how to fix it. If your controller costs 30 bucks, throw it away and change for a new one.

Do you _know_ they had spare controllers?

Yes.

In a 2022 interview with CBC, Rush added the Bluetooth game controllers were durable — “it’s meant for a 16 year old to throw it around,” he said, tossing the controller to the floor — and that they kept spares on board “just in case.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/06/20/video-game-co...

Also, the controllers appear to be only to control the periscope. Which is not a critical component of this submarine. Everybody is fixating on them, but that's not what caused them to sink/get lost. It was probably the rest of the shoddy engineering.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#566

Post by sriram_malhar »

rcme wrote: post #508
phs318u wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone downvoting antonvs please explain why? I think it’s a valid opinion to hold and point to make irrespective of whether you agree.

I didn’t downvote him, but I think it’s a bit dismissive of the original point and kind of falls prey to the no true Scotsman fallacy. antonvs’ point can be summarized as essentially “even though you have firsthand experience running companies with cobbled together critical infrastructure, that’s not actually cobbled together infrastructure.”

I think that the term 'cobbled together' does injustice to something that's been running in production and is quite stable. It isn't a demo that's been cobbled together at short notice. The former isn't elegant because it doesn't have the clean lines of the original design, and age takes its toll.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#567

Post by barrysteve »

wpietri wrote: post #506
javajosh wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

It's wild to me that you write "As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive." And then go on to say some breathtakingly naive things. A lot of ocean activity is thoroughly regulated. For example: https://www.imo.org/en/About/Conventions/Pages/International... Moreover, It's not like they're getting paid in sand dollars or doubloons from the bottom of the sea. The passengers are signing contracts and paying lar…

Pushing regulation back to the point where someone dies, causes these problems in the first place.

It's not hard to certify vehicles before use. We do it with cars on a daily basis.

Measuring the necessity for regulation "in blood" is unbelievably cruel.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#568

Post by bandrami »

proggy wrote: post #200
rwmj wrote: post #46

There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

> there were flammable materials within the pressure vessel

Whut

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#569

Post by dheera »

proggy wrote: post #200
rwmj wrote: post #46

There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

I wonder how much of this has to do with investors giving them only 18 months of runway and "launch or die" mentality. That mentality is okay for software but this ecosystem is NOT okay when lives are in question. When investors are bickering about shitty terms and being stingy with their aerospace and nautical investments, people die.

There needs to be a system by which any company can ALWAYS be guaranteed some $X for 0% equity if it is going to be used and documented for life safety improvements and tests. That $X can even come from taxes, I'm okay with that.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#570

Post by yxhuvud »

Osiris wrote: post #425
fasthands9 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not really how the government operates. If this was operating at scale the government would absolutely be involved. You can't just run cruise ship operations and advertising without government involvement. I dont see how this is any different. Perhaps you personally have a "so be it" libertarian view but thats not the view the government takes.

It’s international waters. What “government” are you referring to?

Assumedly the sale of the service didn't also happen on international waters.
Post reply on HN