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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#481

"At the meeting Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to experimen…

The sub has already survived multiple dives to 4000 meters, and so far nobody has come out with reports of any apparent problems with the viewport. Maybe it failed from an impact or from accumulated fractures from all these pressure cycles, but I'm also completely willing to believe that the depth-rating for human occupancy has enough of a safety factor that going 3 times deeper doesn't lead to failure. From the pre-…

> The sub has already survived multiple dives to 4000 meters, and so far nobody has come out with reports of any apparent problems

The goal is to have extremely high reliability at the given rating. Not failing for a half dozen trips is nearly meaningless. Safety critical equipment is expected to meet the rated load thousands of times without issue. Using equipment well outside its rated working load, in situation where failures kill people, is highly irresponsible.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#482
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely a difference, but it doesn’t really matter philosophically speaking. If people want to take huge risks, then so be it. Whether they build the sub themselves or pay and give that responsibility to a proxy, it is still up to them to make their own risk assessment.

It's one thing for them to take the risk for themselves, but it's a whole other level selling to others. For example, if someone wants to drink a refreshing glass of strychnine soda, it's hard to stop them. But opening a stand and selling at the street corner is a bit different.

The distinction is artificial, both parties paid for either the materials or the final product. Financial gain doesn’t fundamentally change who is responsible, that it just you applying your personal values to the situation.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are latching onto the logitech controller, but I think it's low on my concerns list. Controllers are relatively robust, and they stated they had backups, and could surface without any control input by manually dumping the ballast. Much more concerning are the potential flaws in the carbon fiber hull, as disclosed during the David Lochridge lawsuit (mentioned in another thread), the rumoured lack of surface rad…

Just to nit pick, what good is an exit going to do at 12,000 feet?

The exit would've been for if they surfaced (that plus a life raft presumably)

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#484
post #46

There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…

I just watched it too. What was up with there external lights? several were constantly turning off/on. Where they overheating? loose connection? or what was going on.

I just mean, if the lights are so unreliable, imagine if they all failed, they moving in the dark next to the Titanic. (looks like they also have radar, but that could fail too) And the Pilot in that ep seemed to partly depend on the viewer at the front to say if they got close to something. Looks pretty hard to navigate the sub. I know they trying to give a tour to consumers, but I would want the pilot at the front by the window with the best view and time to react. "Driving" kinda blind with just radar and high ISO camera's is a bit sketch.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

Yes, 100% agree. What I find unbelievable is how many people casually throw around the idea of approval process to prevent bad thing X that just happened, that few even knew existed. We have laborious and very expensive approval processes for airplanes, ask the 737 MAX inspector from the FAA how well that guarded against bad engineering. If even the bad engineering is at fault here (unknown as of writing this).

Oh I'm sure the approval processes stopped many bad ideas in the airplane industry

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of emergency beacon is the real WTF. Not even an inflatable buoy. Using a game pad is probably OK. But no emergency method to mark their last location or even surface?

Can you buy off the shelf emergency beacons that can surface from 400 ATM or broadcast through 13000 ft of water?

why does it need to be off the shelf, their submarine is not off the shelf. If off the shelf stuff odbly does 200 ATM, then limit your depth or mame custom ones.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#487
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

It's one thing for people to go out on their own and take risks, but a company selling a catered experience for a lot of money without basic safety practices is very different.

I think the former is totally fine and there's no need for governments to get involved, while the latter is pretty bad and very possible to regulate.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are latching onto the logitech controller, but I think it's low on my concerns list. Controllers are relatively robust, and they stated they had backups, and could surface without any control input by manually dumping the ballast. Much more concerning are the potential flaws in the carbon fiber hull, as disclosed during the David Lochridge lawsuit (mentioned in another thread), the rumoured lack of surface rad…

Just to nit pick, what good is an exit going to do at 12,000 feet?

[deleted]

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#489
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did have multiple emergency methods to surface. Neither those, nor a beacon help if it imploded under pressure.

Seeing that everything stopped at once, I'd bet that is exactly what happened. Shades of the Thresher disaster. No doubt we'll hear a few months down the track that the Navy's sound receivers did actually pick up the implosion noise.

or someone makes a startup offering submarine exploration of the titanic tours crash site
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