The fact that it's wireless is the scariest part to me. What if it runs out of battery? What if it desyncs?
emergency stop button and release of ballast to gently float to surface?
The emergency stop button is a version 2.0 feature.
Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#262There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…
They really remind me of Tesla. Exploit bleeding-edge technology by doing things as fast and as cheaply as possible. This may sound glib but I really do blame Elon for making "move fast and break things" acceptable in the world of hardware.
When things work you can do great things in record time.
When things don't work, people die.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.
Even high end Logitech peripherals aren't exactly great. I bought a Logitech wireless keyboard with backlighting a few years ago. It was nice but there was some hardware bug and when not in use the lights would be flashing all day and night until the batteries run out [0]. I certainly hope their gamepads are more energy efficient than that! [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/LogitechG/comments/pt0fkp/logitech_...
I have the same keyboard (MX Keys). I didn't have the flashing-light problem, but the lights nevertheless would constantly turn themselves off, after a very short (~5s?) period of inactivity.
I spent a not inconsiderable amount of time trying to find a fix, including removing an internal cable and putting electrical tape over the top. Nothing worked. The closest I got was keeping the wireless keyboard plugged into its USB-C charger so that the timeout period before shutoff was longer than it was in battery-only mode.
All of which is annoying, because it's not cheap (>$100), and the fix is so stupefyingly simple - an addition of one or two settings in the configuration software. And, yes, countless people have reported this to Logitech and their 'support' consists, at best, of saying "I'll pass this on to The Team".
Never have I been more tempted to go all-in and become a firmware hacker, though the feasibility in time and probability of success are both quite low.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#264Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can't afford to qualify the components on your 4000m diving vehicle, you can't afford to make a 4000m diving vehicle. See: the fact that they lost their diving vehicle.
Pressure hull >> ballast control >> thrusters >> everything else I'm not sure why everyone is taking potshots at a company for trying something crazy with willing passengers . Everyone involved knew what they were getting into. Kudos to them for trying, even if they're dead. > See: the fact that they lost their diving vehicle. That's an awful lot of keyboard engineering, given nobody knows what happened yet.
> That's an awful lot of keyboard engineering, given nobody knows what happened yet.
Unless I'm mistaken, the subject article starts with the words "Submarine missing". The fact that the whole thing was jury rigged and double checked by nobody with certifications is enough to start pointing fingers at the engineers.
This isn't the company's first trip either. They've taken multiple trips down and have almost lost the submarine multiple times. This time they actually managed to lose it for good.
The reason people are mad at the company is because their negligence killed 4 people for no good reason.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#266With all the talk about failure modes of carbon fiber, the scariest part of this article is the photo of the display and light held up by screws drilled into the side of the pressure vessel.
Also, why are they using carbon fiber and titanium? Genuine question - I would have thought that being light weight isn't a particular advantage for submersibles.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
They were charging a quarter million per head. Budget should not have been a concern.
Also using close to $1m in fuel per trip (according to the CEO), not that it changes your point
I saw (probably) the same video and thought he was saying the company's lifetime fuel costs were $1M.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#268Related ongoing thread:
Missing Titanic sub faced lawsuit over depths it could safely travel to - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36409475 - June 2023 (177 comments)
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#269The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...
I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…
I mostly agree but my knee-jerk concern is mostly what's not the controller. The USB port, the driver, the operating system, and the computer.
All of that worries me at a glance, but I absolutely have no awareness of the options in this space or what can be done to mitigate risks re: reliability.
Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering
#270I am blown away that there is any overlap between HN readers and people getting gotten by this clickbait.
The controller is sending control signals to the computer which controls the motors. The controller itself is basically irrelevant. It’s not actually doing the control, the motor controllers are.
Using off the shelf stuff like this is also common since it’s extremely well tested and usually very physically robust.