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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#511

Post by starik36 »

kanbara wrote: post #400
starik36 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife drives a Tesla and I drive newish rental cars on a reasonably frequent basis. So I have a basis for comparison. They are definitely not being beaten by larger players. At least not at this stage. Their software is top notch compared to the mish-mash of home grown and Car Play on other vehicles. And the implementation of AutoSteer (free cut down version of self driving) is far superior to what I've seen in oth…

i only ever want CarPlay. i want my own apps that i already have, my own settings, integration into my calendar without leaking data to some random third party. on my smart tv i use apple tv, and never their own ui. i trust apple for privacy and dont want to log in or configure 20 apps on my car. i want my iPhone and its features, period.

CarPlay is fine. The disconnect is that for all car related functionality, you have to break out from it to go back to the car UI.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#512

Post by nilsbunger »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #495
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0] >the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's…

But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#513

Post by sangnoir »

meragrin_ wrote: post #504
sangnoir wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like it’s happening without government intervention The federal government has definitely "intervened" by incentivizing interoperability through a $7.5B carrot[1] for interoperable charging networks. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36408329

So why is everyone fleeing the North American standards J1772/CCS1 in favor of Tesla's? What do these car companies stand to gain switching the charging port? They don't own charging networks.

Their agreements with Tesla are not public, so it's hard to tell what the benefits are. You say "everyone" is switching, but it's only American companies that have pledged to switch to NACS from CCS (so far), I don't think 3 for 3 is a coincidence.

Also unlikely to be coincidental is the fact that Tesla "opened up" its charging patents/specs to competitors [1] in 2014 - but only signed its first partner in 2023, a few months after billions of federal dollars were made available for interoperable charging networks.

1. IIRC, they included a mutual non-aggression clause for patents, and if a 100-year-old company with plenty of patents like Ford, you may balk at that. I'm speculating that Tesla has been offering much more generous terms than the 2014 offer

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#514

Post by breischl »

vel0city wrote: post #187
adrianmonk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And/or, since automakers evidently need some sort of agreement with Tesla[1], if it takes a while, it could be due to negotiations. For example, if there are fees for using the connector (not sure), an automaker might hold out to get the best price. There may be terms related to the rates that will be paid for using Tesla's charging stations. There might be other issues. Maybe Tesla wants to qualify automakers' desig…

> Maybe Tesla wants to qualify automakers' designs so cars don't cause problems with their charging network, or vice versa. I shouldn't need Exxon and Shell and Phillips and Wawa and Sheetz and whoever to qualify my car to get gas. I shouldn't need Tesla and EA and whoever to qualify my car to get electricity. I don't see how anyone can see that and think its a good thing.

They all need to agree how it's done though. And gas cars were the same - did you think the size and shape of the gas pump nozzle were handed down from God or something? Everyone had to agree on that at some point. Apparently that was in 1930, or around 30 years after cars were invented. https://www.cspdailynews.com/csp-magazine/industry-views-all...

We are at that point right now. That is the process happening in front of us. Eventually it will all be settled enough that nobody will have to check that devices work with each other, but we aren't there yet.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#515

Post by pseudosavant »

javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

I've had EVs for 7+ years now and have plenty of experience with J1772, Chaedmo, and CCS. All I can say is thank heavens Tesla's connector is getting adopted! It is the only connector that seems like it was designed with the ease-of-use regular people expect - not what us early adopter EV people will put up with. This kind of friction does impede adoption too.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#516

Post by Marsymars »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #506
Marsymars wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even in that case, it isn't hard for cities to put out L2 charging pylons at each on-street parking space. How does this work for physical logistics? e.g. I’m a two-car household that can’t practically reduce to a single car, with a driveway that only fits one car. (That my partner uses.) I street park in front of my house, and there’s street/sidewalk/lawn. The only place I can think of to put a charging station is…

Are your electric lines all buried? I guess if they are that would make it much more difficult. Otherwise, you have poles or something to keep the lines in the air. I'm just amazed America has so much free parking still. People buy houses, even if they have garages, they use the garage as storage and park their car on the street. Having lived in other countries where that simply can't happen, its like this country pr…

Yes, utilities are all buried. Electrical doesn’t even come from the street side of the house, it comes in from a utility corridor behind my house.

Also have a garage, but isn’t practical to park in it for various reasons, some more fixable than others. (It’s set up as a home gym which I view as essential for my health, it’s single car and parking in the driveway would block in the garage, it doesn’t have a floor drain or appropriate slope for draining which is fairly important for winter snowmelt, and it doesn’t have an automatic door opener.)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#517

Post by cypress66 »

jandrese wrote: post #244
MattRix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.

Musk absolutely underestimated the difficulty of full self driving. He's still doing it today. FSD is one of those techs that makes for awesome demos but it has thousands of edge cases that are hard to test for even with millions of vehicle miles recorded in their big AI datacenter. The tell for me is Hyperloop. That is an optimal environment for FSD, a closed and contained track that has only identical vehicles on i…

I agree with the difficulty of self driving.

However I wouldn't d pay attention to the hyperloop thing. It would be trivial to "hardcode" a car to drive at least the tunnel part. It's almost certainly that the FSD team doesn't want to waste time with that.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#518

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

That should have been done years ago. And "prod" should have been "required."

ball = dropped

So now, once again, the USA adopts a "standard" shunned by the rest of the world.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#519

Post by pseudosavant »

Server6 wrote: post #479
mkozlows wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

The problem is that CCS is objectively bad and way worse than NACS. I suggest watching Sandy Munro's analysis on it.

I don't think people can hear this loud enough. I own an EV with CCS, I'm glad the rest of the industry looks to be going NACS. CCS is in fact objectively terrible. CCS could only seem decent when it was following on something as truly atrocious as Chademo.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#520

Post by wilg »

KaiserPro wrote: post #490
Server6 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that CCS is objectively bad and way worse than NACS. I suggest watching Sandy Munro's analysis on it.

[citation needed] Its a plug, its bigger than NACS but apart from that its hard to notice the difference as a consumer

It's better engineered and designed. It's that simple. Yes, the differences aren't mind-blowing, but who cares. As long as they properly open it up and standardize it as they are saying they will, then this is a perfectly good outcome. Most EVs and fast chargers in the US have Tesla/NACS ports anyway, so this is the easier lift to standardize.
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