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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#481

Post by sangnoir »

mattmaroon wrote: post #467
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

> Seems like it’s happening without government intervention

The federal government has definitely "intervened" by incentivizing interoperability through a $7.5B carrot[1] for interoperable charging networks.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36408329

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#482

Post by labcomputer »

NoGravitas wrote: post #443
jdminhbg wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still cannot figure out what Car People mean when they say Tesla is bad at making cars. What are you looking at that normal people don't see? The one thing I agree about is the yoke steering wheel, but that's on a high-end car nobody seems to actually buy.

I'm not a Car Person (I hate cars, electric ones included), but what I often hear said is that they feel very cheaply made, in terms of fit and finish, both interior and exterior. Panel gaps, water leaking into the trunk, squeaks and rattles. Mostly not very serious (not powertrain issues or anything), but nevertheless, not something you want to see on a car you're paying as much for as a Tesla.

I had heard the same things. And then I actually rented a Model 3 for a week (twice actually). Aside from panel gaps (the Trunk lid was slightly misaligned on one of the cars I rented), I think the whole “Tesla is bad at cars” is promulgated by people who have never actually sat in a Tesla.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#483

Post by jdminhbg »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #301
agloe_dreams wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also one other detail: There's a hell of a lot more money in the car 'fuel' industry than the car making business. R&D costs are way lower, you don't need that many employees, and you can always charge these third party automakers more. Tesla is going to make bank off these adopters.

Most EVs charge at home most of the time, so there isn't that much money in the "fuel" industry, they are mostly needed for long distance trips (and so crowd up on holiday weekends), not daily driving.

Sure, although Tesla is in this market as well, with solar panels, battery packs, and wall chargers.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#484

Post by sangnoir »

Server6 wrote: post #479
mkozlows wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

The problem is that CCS is objectively bad and way worse than NACS. I suggest watching Sandy Munro's analysis on it.

Sandy Munro has a conflict of interest he doesn't always highlight when reporting on Tesla-related issues.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#485

Post by mohaine »

perfectstorm wrote: post #471
mattmaroon wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

Volkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network. they uses CCS and VW is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. i think they can stand on their own. time will tell though.

World status doesn’t mater as this is North America only. Volkswagen doesn’t have a chance and tbh, I doubt they care that much.

They certainly didn’t care enough to make electrify America good.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#486

Post by philistine »

pornel wrote: post #27
pathartl wrote: post #22

I'm not an EV user, so I need some clarification. Is NACS actually a better connector? Or is it just more abundant at the moment? Technology Connections did a deep dive on CCS and it seems like it's a more flexible connector with a truly open standard. The argument for NACS I've seen is that it's a little sleeker (does this really matter all that much?) and it's already on Tesla's supercharger network.

The physical shape of Tesla/NACS is way better: it's more compact, and easier to plug in. The CCS connector OTOH is a lazy retrofit of a design-by-committee plug. The wire protocol of CCS is a bit overengineered, but it's a standard, and it's a sunk cost (all cars, including current Teslas, are already compatible with it). So physical NACS + CCS protocol seems like the best of both. It's also worth pointing out that…

Fast-charging CCS is the Micro-USB 3.0 of car chargers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connectors

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#487

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

mkozlows wrote: post #474
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

[dead]

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#488

Post by evanelias »

outworlder wrote: post #441
evanelias wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's not great but it's totally doable as long as it isn't winter. My understanding is that a Nissan Leaf is much much worse than a Bolt for road trips... I just did an NYC to Cleveland trip in my Bolt EUV, along a route with only a few DC charging locations, and never once had to wait for an available charger -- even on Memorial Day. That said, if you need to use the heater, then yeah it's not viable for a road…

> My understanding is that a Nissan Leaf is much much worse than a Bolt for road trips... As a Nissan Leaf owner, yes. Because of CHADeMO (that is going to be a big problem in a few years, as existing stations fail and don't get replaced) and because of the passively cooled battery pack. I can do one DC fast charging no problem without much change in battery temps (CA weather). 2 or 3 in the same day? Might get toast…

re: winter range, my understanding is that EVs with heat pumps (including Teslas) tend to have much more efficient heaters than ones without heat pumps (e.g. Bolts).

re: speed and consumption, for sure. But because the Bolt's DC fast charging rate maxes out at a fairly lame 50-55 kW, and speeding => reduced range => more charging time required, so on a long Bolt road trip there's diminishing returns from speeding a ton. I suppose it depends a lot on terrain and climate though, since e.g. speeding can be more beneficial if it means you're running the heater for less time.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#489

Post by jeromegv »

mattmaroon wrote: post #467
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

There has been government intervention. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-open-us-charging-ne...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#490

Post by KaiserPro »

Server6 wrote: post #479
mkozlows wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

The problem is that CCS is objectively bad and way worse than NACS. I suggest watching Sandy Munro's analysis on it.

[citation needed]

Its a plug, its bigger than NACS but apart from that its hard to notice the difference as a consumer

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