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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

bbc.com

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Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#571

Post by spadros »

wnc3141 wrote: post #463

After hearing about the experimental nature of the firm (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o&t=203s ), does anyone have any perspective on the firm's ethics or responsibilities for unknown dangers? How does this compare to say astronauts or experimental aircraft pilots?

Seems like they’re going to get sued if the passengers and crew aren’t saved. Possibly even if they are saved. Maybe the contract they get people to sign is tight enough, but everything I’ve read so far seems like they were a bit reckless. They don’t have to inspect their hull for issues every dive; they have real time monitoring of the health at all times! We just pop them back up when we discover an issue…

But what if that issue is detected at a depth at which nothing can be done? At a depth where death is imminent no matter what? The thing is held together with RV lights and a crappy Logitech controller from Amazon. What else have they elected to skimp on?

The “why Titan isn’t classed” page is hilarious too. They mention of the 25 pre checks they have, the majority are for surface operations, not underwater operations. Does not give one confidence and reads like a joke after this debacle.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#572

Post by omniglottal »

aaron695 wrote: post #156
wnevets wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately this sounds like "move fast and break things" in the worst possible way.

It gets boring hearing people who can't program or manage blurt out 'move fast and break things' whenever they hear of failure. Learn to code. Or if you're not smart enough learn project management. Alternatively stop using sayings in other peoples fields. Do something dumb like journalism.

This comment is rude. Please revisit site guidelines.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#573

Post by spadros »

totallywrong wrote: post #348

I get the flex this affords, but I can't think of anything less appealing than spending 8 days underwater in a tiny capsule. I hope they're found and nothing happened.

So much skimming here eh. The whole trip can take 8 days, from launching on a ship to take you out to sea. The actual dive itself is supposed to be 12 hrs from “bolts on” pre dive to “bolts off” getting out of the sub. 8 hrs underwater, not 8 days.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#574

Post by spadros »

ciguy wrote: post #99

This section from their website is interesting: "Real-Time Health Monitoring The most significant innovation is the proprietary real-time hull health monitoring (RTM) system. Titan is the only manned submersible to employ an integrated real-time health monitoring system. Utilizing co-located acoustic sensors and strain gauges throughout the pressure boundary, the RTM system makes it possible to analyze the effects of…

My thoughts exactly. They should be doing a deep inspection of the hull before and after every dive. RTM sounds good until you have a failure at 10000 ft down and die instantly. “We detected a failu -“ and then you go boom.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#575

Post by spadros »

Mizoguchi wrote: post #354

How come there's no way to communicate once under water? Wouldn't be possible to launch a tiny probe attached to the exterior of the sub, either manually or automatically when in trouble, sort of a black box, that bounces back to the surface to broadcast crew messages, sub data and location? Seems like an obvious safety device to have. Are there any technical reasons why this is not available on a vehicle with suck p…

Probably the communication devices were blown off by the shockwave in the case of an implosion. It’s absolutely possible to have communications with the surface at this level; Trieste from the bottom of Mariana Trench was able to communicate back up to surface. That was 3x deeper and the early 60s.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#576

Post by mcpackieh »

venusenvy47 wrote: post #536
accurrent wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is under water. Radio/Cell do not penetrate beyond a few centimeters. Communicating underwater is usually done via acoustics.

They have some type of radio link that works at depth for simple texts messages, but they have to be right above it.

That doesn't seem right, do you have any source? VLF wouldn't stand a chance of reaching that deep and ELF requires extremely large antenna to work. More likely they were using some form of underwater acoustic communication, sending and receiving data through sound instead of radio waves.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#577

Post by mcpackieh »

dtagames wrote: post #541
mcpackieh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did it not occur to anyone that it might be a bad idea? Of course the danger was considered, be realistic and stop letting class conflict cloud your judgement. Something being judged to be dangerous doesn't mean people won't do it, and people doing something dangerous doesn't mean they didn't consider the risks. People go skiing, base jumping down cliffs with wingsuits, cave diving and swimming with sharks. It's ok…

All of the things you mentioned are activities for the wealthy. Why does that matter? Because having a lot of money can make risk not as risky. Rich people know they will be rescued. They have insurance and fancy doctors. They can afford to be airlifted out of exotic places. While it's not a conclusive link, it seems to me that people with a smaller financial safety net might not be as interested in such activities b…

> All of the things you mentioned are activities for the wealthy

That's really the key aspect of this story for you isn't it? Screw them because they're rich; I get that, but just own it.

And for the record, you don't need to be rich to go skiing and break your neck on a tree. A whole lot of working class people save up money for a vacation then go skiing. A whole lot of working class people save up money for a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Hawaii and go scuba diving. If you find it hard to believe either of those scenarios then believe this: a whole lot of working class people buy motorcycles and drive them fast. Hell, when I was a teen I used to pedal my $100 bicycle down steep hills as fast as I could. Taking risks for thrills is something that's broadly accessible to just about anybody.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#578

Post by varjag »

jliptzin wrote: post #567
varjag wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's the worst? Someone barging in into an established engineering domain and making spot judgements. This is simply incredible hubris that often is the hallmark of stupid but educated people. If some brilliant improvement occurred to you in the first 5 seconds of hearing about some technical solution chances are this thought visited others in the past 100 years working on the problem for a living. And if…

It sounds like they could use some improvements, 5 people are probably dead now. Out of how many trips in that submersible? I don’t know, just wondering, but it can’t be that many. Certainly not comparable to commercial airlines. So that’s a pretty high failure rate. Being able to open the vessel from the inside in an emergency probably wouldn’t have saved them, it’s just the first thing that is too much of a red fla…

There is no hint that its probable demise had anything to do with hatch design so far.

This is a recreational dive, there's absolutely no need for it as for most recreational activities.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#579

Post by Vecr »

hkchad wrote: post #551
zarzavat wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, why do it? What’s the attraction of cave diving? Are underwater caves exciting enough that it’s worth the risk? Or is the risk itself the main thrill? Or is your perception that it’s not that risky? I can understand the attraction of e.g. wingsuits, because the idea of flying like a bird is compelling, even if I would never risk my own life to do it. Although there’s definitely more than a few wingsu…

Personally I do it because it's the closest I will ever get to feeling like a space explorer. You are neutrally buoyant (weightless) completely relying on your equipment for survival and able to see places IN the earth very few people will ever experience, plus I love a challenge. When most people think of cave diving they imagine really small holes and limited visibility. Sure, that can be it if you want or you can…

I guess you might be saying that, but it's probably not actually true. "I feel less safe driving to some of the caves than I do diving them" see https://www.dg-aviation.de/en/library/safety-comes-first and https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-of-dying-doing-what-we-lo...

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#580

Post by justsid »

venusenvy47 wrote: post #535
boppo1 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sealed from the outside >no location beacon Wtf is anyone thinking getting in this thing?

And literally steered with a cheap game controller. There's a YouTube video from CBS of their reporter taking a trip on this thing. It's almost comical how cheap it seems.

What’s wrong with game controllers? They are built to be ergonomic and in use for extended periods of time. Also a lot of people are already familiar with how to use them.

Not saying we should replace every bespoke interface with a game controller, but using a game controller isn’t necessarily bad either.

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