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Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

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Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#61

Post by JumpCrisscross »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #35
bogwog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter if lemmy kills reddit. If a new community grows and survives after this whole thing, that's a win for everybody.

Exactly. To me, all this talk of whether Lemmy will replace Reddit is a distraction. 90% of what is on Reddit is (in my opinion) crap, I would be happy if it stayed on Reddit or went somewhere else entirely. All I want to know is whether Lemmy can reach a critical mass where there is enough going on there that it's worth visiting.

> all this talk of whether Lemmy will replace Reddit is a distraction

The question is whether it can become a default place to build an online community. Currently, the answer is no unless you have extremely strong ideological coherence that will get your users through the Kafkaesque onboarding process.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross »

chongli wrote: post #7
ActionHank wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been planning a jump across, but have been waiting it out to see if they see the error of their ways. Thus far they just keep jumping from one awful talking point to the next like a toddler trying to rationalize bad behaviour.

I've been planning a jump across I’m not sure why people think of it this way. Why not just create a lemmy account and try it out? There’s no physical stuff to move (unlike moving to a new apartment or house). You’re not required to delete your Reddit account either. Am I missing something here?

> Why not just create a lemmy account and try it out?

I did, twice. It took at least half an hour between bugs and scanning HN for answers to questions I was repeatedly told I shouldn’t be asking. (Like, how do I choose a server and what consequences does that decision bring. Questions which, after a defederation and onboarding bug and login bug, seemed quite pertinent.) Then there was minimal content, and to top it off, buttons that spin without doing anything half the time.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#63

Post by shagie »

ehutch79 wrote: post #57
shagie wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that what amounts to a single page app with all the links rendered after fetching some data from a service isn't going to be something that can be indexed by a search engine. A google search for site:lemmy.ml with it rendered this way will never result in any data. This may or may not be a good thing since it isn't necessarily assured that the data is stored for extended periods of time (compare: https://masto.h…

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with using websockets by default vs traditional rest data fetching?

You can cache some REST requests which would reduce the load of serving them out of the web socket request each time.

More importantly though (with either of these) is that when Google looks at the page, there are no links for it to traverse or index.

This also means that the site/community isn't discoverable from a random person searching for it inhibiting organic growth.

For example, if you do https://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=where+to+discuss+star... it will likely never return a link to Lemmy (it may return pages that link to lemmy - like the reddit page), but not lemmy itself.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#64

Post by RobotToaster »

shagie wrote: post #53
ehutch79 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't rest (or graphql) be the default? with realtime updates being a progressive enhancement?

Note that what amounts to a single page app with all the links rendered after fetching some data from a service isn't going to be something that can be indexed by a search engine. A google search for site:lemmy.ml with it rendered this way will never result in any data. This may or may not be a good thing since it isn't necessarily assured that the data is stored for extended periods of time (compare: https://masto.h…

It looks like kbin is a more traditional php program, so should be indexable?

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#65

Post by shagie »

RobotToaster wrote: post #64
shagie wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that what amounts to a single page app with all the links rendered after fetching some data from a service isn't going to be something that can be indexed by a search engine. A google search for site:lemmy.ml with it rendered this way will never result in any data. This may or may not be a good thing since it isn't necessarily assured that the data is stored for extended periods of time (compare: https://masto.h…

It looks like kbin is a more traditional php program, so should be indexable?

Yes, except that they've blocked it for crawlers that honor that.

https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/http-kbin-social/ckiwikap...

> CRAWLING AND INDEXING

> Page is blocked from indexing

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#66

Post by balder1991 »

bee_rider wrote: post #50
afavour wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of what you’re saying is correct but so is what the OP said. It’s very difficult for a volunteer run operation to scale up at short notice. The same time Lemmy has to if it wants to capture disaffected Reddit users.

Reddit is still in the process of making bad moves I think; unless I missed something and they announced a reversal of the API pricing changes? Lemmy should grow at a sustainable pace. The population boom from the blackouts is transient. As the moderators on Reddit get less enthusiastic about doing free work for a company that clearly doesn’t like them and will happily take away their tools, some will give up. The co…

I feel like the population boom was enough to enable a few communities to settle in Lemmy and now they’ll grow more organically. So far I’m enjoying the quality of posts there, it’s definitely a situation where quality over quantity makes sense.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#67

Post by dragontamer »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
NoboruWataya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. To me, all this talk of whether Lemmy will replace Reddit is a distraction. 90% of what is on Reddit is (in my opinion) crap, I would be happy if it stayed on Reddit or went somewhere else entirely. All I want to know is whether Lemmy can reach a critical mass where there is enough going on there that it's worth visiting.

> all this talk of whether Lemmy will replace Reddit is a distraction The question is whether it can become a default place to build an online community. Currently, the answer is no unless you have extremely strong ideological coherence that will get your users through the Kafkaesque onboarding process.

Beehaw.org has a difficult onboarding process by design. And I welcome their experimentation.

But Lemmy.world is... fine-ish? The main issue is the bugs. If the sending of the confirm email fails, the website spins forever without an error. (And it looks like so many "confirm emails' were sent, that Lemmy.world was getting blocked for spam by its provider).

If you have an underscore in your username, the signup process hangs and spins forever.

If your password is longer than 20 characters or so, the signup process hangs and spins forever.

Etc. etc. Its not the best process and these bugs need to be fixed. But if you're like me (who created at the right time with a typical password and typical username), you probably get in to https://lemmy.world just fine.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#68

Post by dragontamer »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62
chongli wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been planning a jump across I’m not sure why people think of it this way. Why not just create a lemmy account and try it out? There’s no physical stuff to move (unlike moving to a new apartment or house). You’re not required to delete your Reddit account either. Am I missing something here?

> Why not just create a lemmy account and try it out? I did, twice. It took at least half an hour between bugs and scanning HN for answers to questions I was repeatedly told I shouldn’t be asking. (Like, how do I choose a server and what consequences does that decision bring. Questions which, after a defederation and onboarding bug and login bug, seemed quite pertinent.) Then there was minimal content, and to top it…

100% agree. These are the real issues with Lemmy that need to be discussed. I feel like I've seen your comments before... my understanding of you is that you'd probably enjoy the https://programming.dev, although the signup process there is a bit harder.

The admins at https://Lemmy.world continues to fix various bugs / performance issues.

----------

It looks like Beehaw.org curated the strongest community "before the #RedditBlackout". based on my browsing there, they're more focused on their various topics (anime, technology, programming), rather than the RedditBlackout... which is a much healthier long-term community feel. Alas, they have only kept that because they have made signups difficult.

Hopefully, Beehaw.org opens back up as the RedditBlackout wave subsides. They do plan to refederate in the long term, but only after new moderation-tools are created. No idea how long that would take, but no one seems to expect this particular defedization to stay forever.

---------

The communities that focus on... well... community... will win in the medium term. I recognize that most people are using Lemmy because they're angry at Reddit (and that's fine enough to create a short-term community). But people need to start thinking about what kind of community they want to create on Lemmy now, and not just be part of an angry protest.

Its happening, but slowly. Its harder to community-build than it is to just get angry and protest a webpage.

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#69

Post by binwiederhier »

speg wrote: post #21

I’m getting frustrated with Lemmy. I’ve tried to reply to a post this morning and the submit button just spins. No error, nothing. This is a bad bug, but there are plenty other small things. Like why is “Join Lemmy” link still displayed when I’m logged in? Feels like unbaked software to me. That’s on top of all the multiple federated instances you need to wrap your head around. I’m not sure this can compete :(

> I’m getting frustrated with Lemmy.

I am too, but I am sticking with it for now. It is really hard to ignore all the horrible horrible bugs, though.

> I’ve tried to reply to a post this morning and the submit button just spins. No error, nothing.

I have the same issue. I always always copy the text I've written before submitting on Lemmy, because it happens so often that it just swallows the text and my comment is gone forever.

I have noticed that manually setting the language to "English" (below the text box) somehow reduces the failure rate significantly. No idea why.

Other things I have issues with:

- The "Hot" ordering on my instance is never updated. The newest "Hot" post is 4 days old by now and it never changes anymore. Not sure what happened 4 days ago, but I can only browse by "New" or "Active". The "Active" browsing is dumb, because I think every new comment is bumping it up again, and "New" only gets you the brand new stuff that nobody has commented on yet. "Hot" would really be my preference, but that's broken...

- The commenting issues described above. If I don't set the language, I sometimes see "language_not_allowed", and sometimes the text just vanishes. The Android app isn't working anymore because of this. It won't let me set the language and it won't let me post or comment.

- Subscribing to other communities is painful. The UX is not there yet. You can't just subscribe. Instead you have to manually copy the URL to the search box and let your instance discover the community, and then you can subscribe.

- Missing comments/posts: When subscribing to a new community, you won't ever receive old comments for posts. You'll see new comments come in, but there is no sync mechanism (not even a manual one) to retrieve the old stuff. This leaves you with an incomplete view of the world.

- Missing comments/posts (part two): Even if you have subscribed for a long time, comments and post will not have all comments always, either because of a delay of minutes (or hours!), or just because of bugs, idk. It's annoying.

- Security: There are some bad security issues [example: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3060], which is obvious in the early stages of a piece of complicated software like this. But still. I think the reckoning will come eventually now that Lemmy is on the radar.

- Privacy: There are a number of privacy concerns, namely that posts can never truly be deleted, and that things are public that should not be (like likes/dislikes). See https://discuss.ntfy.sh/comment/51609

- ... (more, but the post is too long already)

Re: Lemmy stats (users, posts, nodes, comments)

#70

Post by dragontamer »

bigyikes wrote: post #10
chongli wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been planning a jump across I’m not sure why people think of it this way. Why not just create a lemmy account and try it out? There’s no physical stuff to move (unlike moving to a new apartment or house). You’re not required to delete your Reddit account either. Am I missing something here?

It’s because Lemmy isn’t actually compelling outside of a few niche circles.

In my experience, private instances of PhpBB forums provide niche webtools that are necessary for community building that Reddit could never replace.

The Tetris community created a Javascript gui called Fumen (https://harddrop.com/fumen/), that can be embedded into PhpBB forums.

The chess community created Javascript GUIs that read/write .pgn files (aka: move-history files) to help the community discuss games.

The Go community created a similar GUI for Go games. Etc. etc.

-----------

Since the administrator controls the whole webpage (including Javascript), you can host local tools in a Reddit-like environment. I think people are sleeping on the potential here, especially if you've never used these custom web-GUIs before.

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