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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

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Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#191

Post by jonathankoren »

engineer_22 wrote: post #48
dtagames wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's a particularly crass thing to say about someone while their life is in jeopardy. >Did it not occur to anyone that it might be a bad idea? It's hard to be sympathetic in the face of such arrogance The company advertises the safety of their submersible and an active suite of sensors to detect and prevent failures.

It may be crass, but it's also true. Contrary to what many folks say, this is the exact time to be talking about these deficiencies. Putting it off to later, is simply an attempt to memory hole them.

The company lost a submersible for four hours on a previous dive. They don't talk about that. In fact, they killed the internet so the reporter that happened to be onboard couldn't report it. (That's what we call, a "cover up".) Putting much weight into a company declaring their commitment to safety is a bit of a fool's errand. Even the most reckless company says that safety is paramount.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#192

Post by ra »

zh3 wrote: post #101
scarnz wrote: post #30

This appears to be the vessel in question: https://oceangate.com/our-subs/titan-submersible.html Pressure hull made from titanium and carbon fiber, capable of diving to 4000m (13,000 ft). I recall that one reason SpaceX switched from carbon fiber to stainless steel pressure vessels (fuel tanks) was the difficulty of detecting structural flaws. Can any engineers comment on whether that task is easier for a vessel expo…

I imagine the search and rescue effort have checked the seismograph/ocean sounds/other networks, AIUI an implosion at depth makes quite a bang, so not detecting one would be a positive.

Yeah, and you would have thought that in calm weather there would have been something to see on the surface. I hope they're OK.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#193

Post by londons_explore »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #162
carbine wrote: post #111

I'm hesitant to speculate but just sharing -- an earlier version of this submersible was scrapped: "OceanGate will take advantage of lessons learned during the construction of its carbon-hulled Titan submersible, which was originally built for Titanic journeys. Rush said tests that were conducted at the Deep Ocean Test Facility in Annapolis, Md., revealed that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” As a r…

If your design breaks at less than the target then you really have to question the logic of continuing with that design. Making it slightly bigger won't fix the inherent issue with the materials. They're potentially opening themselves up to charges for killing these people. They knowingly or recklessly put them on a boat when it isn't capable of reaching the depth safely and now they are dead.

The fact they took it to some testing facility to test for cyclic fatigue shows that they understood that it was an unknown in the design, decided to test it at a facility designed for exactly that, it failed so they redesigned presumably with a design to mitigate the failures of design one. They probably took design two through the same testing process, and presumably it passed or they wouldn't have paying guests in it.

This sounds like the engineering process going right.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#194

Post by yieldcrv »

m_0x wrote: post #165
s1artibartfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more to life than safetyism. Of course the risks were considered. There is absolutely no need for the arbitrary hostility.

> Of course the risks were considered. Billionaire: "Tell me about the risks" OceanGate: "We use military grade equipment! It's risk-free" Billionaire: "Sign me up" Jokes aside, I wonder if billionaires do assess more thoroughly the risks than any normal person. They can easily dedicate a team to assess the risks to their various activities.

IMO I think its less because less affects them. Much more similar to the lowest socioeconomic rung.

There is no worry about not being able to go to work if you get injured.

There is no worry about getting fired for "not representing the corporate values" because you did something sexy.

Same for substance use or abuse.

Only the people in the middle have to care about all that stuff.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#195

Post by wanderingjew »

jonathankoren wrote: post #178
spatialaustin wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David Pogue, who traveled to the Titanic with OceanGate last summer, has said that he was on the control ship when a previous sub was "lost for about 5 hours". Source: https://twitter.com/Pogue/status/1670835763536183297

Jesus. This sounds like this group is just taking billionaires' money while running a death trap. How the hell do you lose your sub for five hours? This should have stopped all trips until they fixed this problem through a combination of technical and procedural changes.

[flagged]

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#196

Post by bell-cot »

mcpackieh wrote: post #141
bell-cot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes...but those are places where where the dead received "proper" burials. (Excepting Pompeii, and maybe some battlefields. Pompeii tends to get a pass because "ancient", "technically buried", and "A-listed Roman cultural site".) And generally, visiting ~none of those other places is a brag-worthy way to show off being one of the modern 0.1%. (Which, these days, gets very little sympathy in many quarters. Even withou…

It's very common for recreational divers to visit ships with bodies still in them. Maybe it's morbid, but it's common and generally you don't need to be "0.1%" to do it. If this story were about some working class people who died while scuba diving around a wreck in shallow water, would you still be trying to vilify them for it?

True about recreational divers.

I'm trying to explain the sentiments which user paganel originally voiced - which I suspect are kinda common. My sense is that the strong negative feeling are tied to how much of a "just too many emotional points against it" corner case this is. A famous & famously tragic shipwreck, the dangers inherent in their extreme tourism, how very few people can imagine "it coulda been someone like me in that little sub", the "mass grave" scale of death, the kinda-mythical "forbidden underworld" aura to the site, etc., etc.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#197

Post by opwieurposiu »

carbine wrote: post #111

I'm hesitant to speculate but just sharing -- an earlier version of this submersible was scrapped: "OceanGate will take advantage of lessons learned during the construction of its carbon-hulled Titan submersible, which was originally built for Titanic journeys. Rush said tests that were conducted at the Deep Ocean Test Facility in Annapolis, Md., revealed that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” As a r…

The hatch is bolted shut from the outside. When you make it back to the surface, there is no way to get out without external support.

If the mother ship can not find the sub the occupants could be trapped bobbing just below the surface until their air runs out.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#198

Post by [deleted] »

imglorp wrote: post #53
ralphhughes wrote: post #40

Skimming the website, I assume this submersible is using electromagnetically attached drop-weights so that if anything goes wrong and power is lost, the weights drop off and the submersible floats up to the surface again? And 96 hours of life support sounds good, but unless there is another submersible nearby that can dive down, find them AND attach a line, the number of hours of life support will be irrelevant. Of c…

A location pinger would be a no brainer but like you say, it only helps if there's another sub with a grapple in range, in time. I understand why oceanographers /might/ want to do this, but not in person when ROV tech is so good now, for biology and tourism. There are so many things that can happen to fragile humans in that complex machine: drowning, freezing, asphyxiating, crushing, oxygen narcosis, nitrogen narcosi…

[deleted]

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#199

Post by NyxWulf »

fhub wrote: post #158
homieg33 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As someone with a surname that is easily made fun of, I urge you to just leave off irrelevant quips.

My maternal grandfather changed his last name when he turned 18, from the German Uhren to Uhrey. If your last name bothers you, fix it.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#200

Post by TechBro8615 »

1024core wrote: post #182
driscoll42 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costs about $250k per person - https://oceangateexpeditions.com/tour/titanic-expedition/ (Site looks to be down at the moment, probably overloaded due to people searching after this news). I don't think it's particularly crowded, but certainly could become one day in theory. Cached Link: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bwPF96...

> Costs about $250k per person Actually, the trip down is free. The $250K is to bring you back... ;-)

I think it was George Carlin who asked why people say "have a safe flight" instead of "have a safe landing."
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