Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 59 posts

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#21

Post by wkat4242 »

908B64B197 wrote: post #19
wkat4242 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I live in one of the lower-wage EU countries even though I'm from one of the higher-wage ones. Though in practice it doesn't really matter as cost of living is lower too, it just matters when buying electronics. Or a car but I don't need one where I live and I hate driving. And having completely free healthcare gives a lot of peace of mind. But I don't want to work harder to have more. I have enough to live comf…

> Yeah I live in one of the lower-wage EU countries even though I'm from one of the higher-wage ones. Though in practice it doesn't really matter as cost of living is lower too, it just matters when buying electronics. Or a car but I don't need one where I live and I hate driving. And having completely free healthcare gives a lot of peace of mind. And cheaper real estate means you are paid less and build less equity…

> And cheaper real estate means you are paid less and build less equity in a house. But like the car, people convince themselves they don't want it so they don't have to admit they can't have it anyways.

I used to have a car when I lived in Ireland because public transport there is absolutely terrible, even in the cities (even Dublin has only mediocre transport).

Here in Spain it's amazing. I really don't need a car, nor the worries of service, repairs, insurance, taxes, fuel costs, parking...

Driving to work in Ireland used to stress me out so much because the road design is stupid there too (too many roundabouts), which causes access roads to congest and people press their right of way really hard as a result. I've had so many near misses. I'm really so so happy I don't need a car now. And 20 euro covers my entire travel needs for a whole month. I walk where I can and for everything else that 20 bucks covers an amazing metro, tram, bus, train and cablecar network.

And equity is a paper thing. It doesn't actually improve my quality of life.

> A lot of it can be traced to our southern border and gang activity. Something I'm surprised Europeans don't realize considering the rise in violent crimes post 2015 migrant crisis...

Violent crime here in Spain hasn't really increased and this is where a ton of the migrants arrive and still reside. It's more in the Northern countries where they let mafias get out of hand due to budget cuts on policing, and their harbours being big targets of drug trafficking.

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#22

Post by mrbadger »

gumballindie wrote: post #3

Of course it has, and it will further. EU countries are busy dominating each other. The EU is not about unity but rather about modern day colonialism. I think storm clouds are brewing over europe and wont be too long until things will blow up again.

This is arrant nonsense. EU countries are NOT busy dominating each other nor are they engaged in colonialism, unless you think the Brussels Effect is about colonialism instead of the EU punching above its weight in setting norms and standards.

The EU is actually a very effective mechanism for preventing countries dominating others. A current case in point is the EU acting as a restraint on the historic domination of Ireland by the UK.

The UK expected Ireland to be forced out of the EU following the UK's exit or that the EU would sacrifice Ireland (compel it to have a trade border with the EU in order to protect the status quo of the open Ireland/NI border). Neither happened. Instead the British were obliged to uphold the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement -- a change from the UK's customary bad faith in dealing with Ireland.

Very simply the UK couldn't and cannot afford sanctions the EU would impose if the UK repeated its colonialist behaviour.

You'd be better off reading up on how the EU came into existence and on how it actually works (why VAT for tax eg) than making unsupported assertions.

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#23

Post by [deleted] »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #13
gumballindie wrote: post #3

Of course it has, and it will further. EU countries are busy dominating each other. The EU is not about unity but rather about modern day colonialism. I think storm clouds are brewing over europe and wont be too long until things will blow up again.

France might have some imperial/colonial intentions, rest of Europe is actively fighting against neocolonialism by supporting Ukraine against Russian imperialism.

[deleted]

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#25

Post by lockhouse »

massysett wrote: post #4

The point about the lifestyle industries is a good one. Europeans feel they have the good life, so why would they want to be more like Americans (who work like crazy, have no safety net, and live with random gun violence) or like the Chinese (who slide into even greater autocracy)? Perhaps the drawbacks of American and Chinese society are the very factors contributing to their economic growth?

I have to disagree with one point you made. Despite what the media would have you believe, gun violence in America is not random. The vast majority of it is gang related or suicide. We don’t have a gun problem, we have an inner city crime problem and a mental health problem, both probably fueled largely by the other problems you mentioned, such as our work culture and lack of social safety nets.

Another point I’d like to make is that modern European lifestyles exist partly due to American military hegemony, which has allowed European nations to redirect their defense spending to social programs.

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#26

Post by AntiRemote »

gumballindie wrote: post #3

Of course it has, and it will further. EU countries are busy dominating each other. The EU is not about unity but rather about modern day colonialism. I think storm clouds are brewing over europe and wont be too long until things will blow up again.

[dead]

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#27

Post by ix-ix »

lockhouse wrote: post #25
massysett wrote: post #4

The point about the lifestyle industries is a good one. Europeans feel they have the good life, so why would they want to be more like Americans (who work like crazy, have no safety net, and live with random gun violence) or like the Chinese (who slide into even greater autocracy)? Perhaps the drawbacks of American and Chinese society are the very factors contributing to their economic growth?

I have to disagree with one point you made. Despite what the media would have you believe, gun violence in America is not random. The vast majority of it is gang related or suicide. We don’t have a gun problem, we have an inner city crime problem and a mental health problem, both probably fueled largely by the other problems you mentioned, such as our work culture and lack of social safety nets. Another point I’d lik…

You may have an "inner city crime problem" but that does not mean you don't have a gun problem. It absolutely is both.

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#28

Post by gumby »

blitzar wrote: post #16
another2another wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is in fact a resounding success of monetary integration and legal harmonization leading to a mutually beneficial zone of economic cooperation. People can travel, work and live in any member state with little or no barriers. Produce and sell their goods and services across the whole zone in one big legal bloc. The cost of being outside of that bloc is one that Britons are now starting to realise, and are beginn…

The aqueduct?

Yes, but apart from the aqueduct?

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#29

Post by 3dbrows »

lockhouse wrote: post #25
massysett wrote: post #4

The point about the lifestyle industries is a good one. Europeans feel they have the good life, so why would they want to be more like Americans (who work like crazy, have no safety net, and live with random gun violence) or like the Chinese (who slide into even greater autocracy)? Perhaps the drawbacks of American and Chinese society are the very factors contributing to their economic growth?

I have to disagree with one point you made. Despite what the media would have you believe, gun violence in America is not random. The vast majority of it is gang related or suicide. We don’t have a gun problem, we have an inner city crime problem and a mental health problem, both probably fueled largely by the other problems you mentioned, such as our work culture and lack of social safety nets. Another point I’d lik…

> Another point I’d like to make is that modern European lifestyles exist partly due to American military hegemony, which has allowed European nations to redirect their defense spending to social programs.

I see Americans make this comment a lot. Putting aside whether or not it is true that it enables higher domestic social spending, the comment never seems to come with the realisation that many Europeans deride the “need” for higher defence spending. This is due to Europeans’ perception that American military adventurism is what creates the instability from which Europe requires American protection in the first place.

Many Europeans will say: “America, please stop bombing the mideast or continuously expanding NATO; this will stop creating problems that result in you demanding we spend more.”

In other words, many Americans presuppose the validity of their military adventurism and assume Europeans agree with it, and thus think they should want to participate in funding the defence of blowback from it.

By contrast, many Europeans would rather America did not try to play global policeman, or if it’s going to do so, then happily accept paying for European defence as the price of Pax Americana / US hegemony.

Re: Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing

#30

Post by mullingitover »

blitzar wrote: post #16
another2another wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is in fact a resounding success of monetary integration and legal harmonization leading to a mutually beneficial zone of economic cooperation. People can travel, work and live in any member state with little or no barriers. Produce and sell their goods and services across the whole zone in one big legal bloc. The cost of being outside of that bloc is one that Britons are now starting to realise, and are beginn…

The aqueduct?

And the sanitation.
Post reply on HN