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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

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Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#51
post #39

It's worth contrasting the design of this vehicle with what is ostensibly the world standard for deep-sea research submersibles, Alvin of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. https://www.whoi.edu/what-we-do/explore/underwater-vehicles/...

There’s a strange sense of scale on that thing. You wouldn’t immediately look at it and say that two people can fit inside for 30 days.

EDIT: 30 days between maintenance. I’m a dirty skimmer.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating theyre relying on starlink for operations. I heard starlink was fairly unreliable from folks who have it in remote areas.

What better alternatives would they have in the middle of the ocean?

More traditional satellite networks, I guess? As I understand it, this is what sailors do / did before starlink.

This had me curious if I could find coverage maps of satellite operators, and I found this: https://www.satphonestore.com/coveragemaps

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#53

Skimming the website, I assume this submersible is using electromagnetically attached drop-weights so that if anything goes wrong and power is lost, the weights drop off and the submersible floats up to the surface again? And 96 hours of life support sounds good, but unless there is another submersible nearby that can dive down, find them AND attach a line, the number of hours of life support will be irrelevant. Of c…

A location pinger would be a no brainer but like you say, it only helps if there's another sub with a grapple in range, in time.

I understand why oceanographers /might/ want to do this, but not in person when ROV tech is so good now, for biology and tourism. There are so many things that can happen to fragile humans in that complex machine: drowning, freezing, asphyxiating, crushing, oxygen narcosis, nitrogen narcosis, co2 poisoning, and the plain old bends.

So why do people risk all that, and pay 125k to do it? Why the titanic obsession? It's only the fourth worst maritime disaster (Doña Paz in 1987 had 4k deaths) and so what if someone made a movie about one.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The structural problems for space vessels vs submersibles I might believe to be quite different. In space the main issue is containing internal pressure - so the skin is all in tension. While a submersible the pressure is from without - so the skin is all in compression.

Also of note, the pressure differences are much higher in submersibles.

Professor: Good Lord! That's over 150 atmospheres of pressure!

Fry: How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?

Professor: Well, it’s a spaceship, so I’d say anywhere between zero and one…

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#55
post #30

This appears to be the vessel in question: https://oceangate.com/our-subs/titan-submersible.html Pressure hull made from titanium and carbon fiber, capable of diving to 4000m (13,000 ft). I recall that one reason SpaceX switched from carbon fiber to stainless steel pressure vessels (fuel tanks) was the difficulty of detecting structural flaws. Can any engineers comment on whether that task is easier for a vessel expo…

Carbon fibers are strong in tension. That's why it is good for pressure vessels that are trying explode. Your wrap the fibers on the outside of the pressure boundary. Same concept that you can only pull on a rope, not push it. I'd be interested to see how they are using carbon fibers in compressive applications like deep sea vessels. Is that more of a marketing thing? "Carbon fiber" sounds sexy, so we'll advertise that we're using it, but it is really for non-load bearing applications?

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#56

Skimming the website, I assume this submersible is using electromagnetically attached drop-weights so that if anything goes wrong and power is lost, the weights drop off and the submersible floats up to the surface again? And 96 hours of life support sounds good, but unless there is another submersible nearby that can dive down, find them AND attach a line, the number of hours of life support will be irrelevant. Of c…

> mercilessly quickly

mercifully quickly?

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating theyre relying on starlink for operations. I heard starlink was fairly unreliable from folks who have it in remote areas.

What better alternatives would they have in the middle of the ocean?

I’ve absolutely no idea, but wouldn’t a satellite system higher up like Hughes have a better chance of working out there?

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I wonder if they award multiple Darwin awards at once?

I don't think it's stupid to expect that submersibles are well-engineered.

I'd also imagine that the tourists trusted the reputation of the operator. Both the state of the equipment and that their safety checks and processes were stringent. Especially since they claimed to aid in the science.

There aren't many priors for civilian submarine disasters.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#59
Not an expert...but my impression is that the implosion, at depth, of even the very small submarine in question here would generate an extremely loud "noise". Probably obvious to any hydrophone on the support vessel, and near-certainly recorded in detail by military monitoring systems.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#60
post #19

[flagged]

Not sure it's exactly a comforting thought but at this depth they wouldn't have drowned.

TBH at this stage we just don't know. They might not have imploded but instead been left stranded on the bottom with an intact pressure hull but some other sort of equipment failure. Still a hopeless situation unfortunately.
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