Live data from Hacker News

Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

juicybeast.com

131–140 of 280 posts

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#131
post #37
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft decided to name their consoles that way, because they didn't want their console to be one number behind the PlayStation.

They solved it on 360. Its successor should be 361.

They also could have gone with Super Xbox or Xbox⁶⁴.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#132

> The process of porting the game was hard by itself, but following up a year of non-creative work with a launch that doesn’t make much noise, nor sell a lot, was pretty hard on all of us. I think classifying the one (!!) programmer's work as uncreative when he got the game running on multiple consoles is completely wrong. That guy is your main asset, and probably your most creative team member.

"Creative" and "Un-creative" don't have to mean "Good" and "Bad".

"Creative" makes me think someone who is working on story, art assets, gameplay mechanics, etc.

Engine work can be good but it is not creative from the player's perspective. Maybe from the programming-for-the-sake-of-programming perspective it is.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what the average would matter, because not all games are created equal. It's kind of like the Steven King / Richard Bachman experiment [1]. The question he was answering was not how likely a random author was to succeed, but how likely a good author was to succeed. So it seems that the important question is what are the odds of a genuinely good game going unrecognized, flopping completely? What are the od…

I think the probability is quite high that even fairly good games will flop, because there are so many indie developers, and because the tools are so advanced. So only the best of the best will succeed, or those which satisfy some unique niche, or which somehow already have an established brand.

If you're correct, then this would mean there are countless genuinely great games on e.g. Steam going completely untouched that would otherwise be megahits if people simply knew about them. This sets up countless amazing commercial opportunities if you are correct, that are seemingly just going completely untapped. But for the more simplistic purposes of our discussion, can you think of any particularly compelling examples?

Basically I'm arguing that there is no black swan. It's not really hard to refute it, if I'm wrong, because all you need to do is point to one. I suppose the inevitable outcome might be we then hem and haw back and forth about whether something is "good", but well - at least it's a reasonable evidence based starting point, yeah?

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#134

I'm not sure why exactly but I see so many " Deluxe" titles out there I just assume they're janky cloned 5-minute games with 50c in the discount bin. At least for me, the name is an immediate "no".

Same with "$thing Simulator" (there was a 'gas station simulator' on Steam recently) or (in the 90's) "Sim $something" or "$something Tycoon) (sim city, sim ant, sim skyscraper, sim hospital, apparently there's a huge list [0]). Or "$something Online", because every franchise had to be turned into an MMO; Lord of the Rings Online, The Elder Scrolls Online, Eve Online, you name it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li…

> sim city > [rollercoaster] Tycoon

Ok, I'm going to have to stop you there. These are two of the greatest games of all time. ALL TIME.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by "true" indie games. Valheim [1][2], by any reasonable interpretation of the word, is a completely indie game. It was made almost entirely by a single guy in his spare time after work, well at least until it blew up and he was able to expand the studio. And it was released with little more than a post on itch.io - 'Hey guys here's my game and a couple of pics. Let me know what you think.…

Valheim and such games are very much exceptions to this, for every successful indie game released, there is an ocean of unsuccessful games out there and that may be equally as good, or even better than Valheim.

Can you fuel your argument with some examples? I hear the argument in similar forms a lot, how a lot of good games failed because of bad marketing or just no luck. But I never see any examples. The response I get to my question is usually "I don't know of an example precisely because it never got popular", but I find it very fallacious - if there's thousands of good games out there, that failed to be popular, surely you would stumble into a few of them. A claim that a game either is popular and makes money, or is not popular and no one ever hears about it - is a false dichotomy.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#136
I remember reading a dev diary from Toto Temple years ago, about making their character select menu run in-engine so they could make sure all 4 players knew how to use the dash move.

Then I lost track of the game.

It's funny that 2 years after this article, in 2018, Celeste became a triple-I hit using a similar dash move but single-player. Turns out pixel platformers still had some juice left, but couch MP is never coming back.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by "true" indie games. Valheim [1][2], by any reasonable interpretation of the word, is a completely indie game. It was made almost entirely by a single guy in his spare time after work, well at least until it blew up and he was able to expand the studio. And it was released with little more than a post on itch.io - 'Hey guys here's my game and a couple of pics. Let me know what you think.…

As someone who has been working as an indie game dev for the past 13 years, I think you’ve got a pretty unrealistic view of the situation. You can’t just make a “good game” anymore. The tastes of the market get more demanding over time. To put it another way, the bar for what constitutes a “good game” gets more and more difficult every year. There are successful games from a few years ago that would not get any sales…

> The tastes of the market get more demanding over time.

That seems to me to be true of most (every) industries / areas of human endeavor?

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the probability is quite high that even fairly good games will flop, because there are so many indie developers, and because the tools are so advanced. So only the best of the best will succeed, or those which satisfy some unique niche, or which somehow already have an established brand.

If you're correct, then this would mean there are countless genuinely great games on e.g. Steam going completely untouched that would otherwise be megahits if people simply knew about them. This sets up countless amazing commercial opportunities if you are correct, that are seemingly just going completely untapped. But for the more simplistic purposes of our discussion, can you think of any particularly compelling ex…

If you pick the 10 largest apples out of 100 random apples, then those will, with high probability, be smaller than the 10 largest apples out of 1000 random apples. This should be dead obvious to anyone.

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by "true" indie games. Valheim [1][2], by any reasonable interpretation of the word, is a completely indie game. It was made almost entirely by a single guy in his spare time after work, well at least until it blew up and he was able to expand the studio. And it was released with little more than a post on itch.io - 'Hey guys here's my game and a couple of pics. Let me know what you think.…

As someone who has been working as an indie game dev for the past 13 years, I think you’ve got a pretty unrealistic view of the situation. You can’t just make a “good game” anymore. The tastes of the market get more demanding over time. To put it another way, the bar for what constitutes a “good game” gets more and more difficult every year. There are successful games from a few years ago that would not get any sales…

Could you name a few? Not trying to challenge I’m actually really curious how the bar has shifted over time. (It also makes me curious if it means newbies have an increasingly high bar to clear and eventually pushes out young people?)

Re: Releasing an indie game on 3 consoles at once and failing financially (2016)

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wii U, which Nintendo marketed so badly many people thought it was an extension for their Wii I can't decide if that's better or worse than Xbox. Xbox One isn't the original Xbox? And do I want Series S or X?

Xbox names are the worst. Just look at these names: one, one S, one X, series X and series S I had so much trouble figuring out which xbox was “the new one” when I considered buying one last year.

I'm a pretty big supporter of Xbox (had every console they've so far released, heavy into Game Pass) and my god they need to get naming right. They should have called it the "Xbox 4" or something to make it simple.

Though, Microsoft is never one for making names simple.

Post reply on HN