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Modafinil and Startups

swombat.com

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Re: Modafinil and Startups

#11

Post by NinetyNine »

w1ntermute wrote: post #3

Is it just me, or does using mind-altering substances to get through one's daily schedule seem like it crosses the line? I'm always a little baffled when people sacrifice their health for work - it's a very bad decision in the long term. You can always find another job, but once you damage your health, you may never get it back.

Whether this drug does damage your health in the long run is no where near determined.

I think, more interestingly, I'd ask if it were to become known that modafinil (or adderall) were harmful long term, would people still use it to gain competitive advantage. If we gain a nootropic with significant effects, at what point does it become disadvantageous not to jump on the mystery train? The 'line' that can be crossed is different for everyone.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#12

Post by NinetyNine »

johnyzee wrote: post #10

Trying to hack the body like this is the equivalent of fiddling around with some extremely complex code that you have no idea what does (in production, on an infinitely complex system with zero unit test coverage).

Your comment is nothing but a metaphor for fearing the unknown.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#13

Post by nl »

The thing I find most interesting about Modafinil is how consistent the stories are about how people feel (and work) when they take it.

Everyone talks of extreme focus, but perhaps a loss of judgement about what tasks are actually important.

I don't have any particular conclusions about that - I just find it really interesting.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#15

Post by swombat »

peter_l_downs wrote: post #7

What I found with more experimentation of days both with and without Modafinil was that actually, I was just as productive if I was well rested, healthy, well fed with healthy foods and working on something I cared about. This, I think, is the most interesting part of the entire piece. He talks at length about the benefits of Modafinil: On the good side, those tasks which I did line up got done, and with great energy…

That is my own main takeaway... Which is why I don't take Modafinil anymore.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#16

Post by johngalt »

Getting a full nights sleep every night does wonders for concentration as well. Don't think of your body as the jar your brain walks around in. They are very tightly linked. If I wanted the effects he describes I'd spend 30mins on the elliptical.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#17

Post by nkohari »

w1ntermute wrote: post #5
Jach wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you drink coffee or caffeinated soda? Also Modafinil by itself doesn't seem to cause any health problems, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. The impure Adrafinil can cause liver problems though. I'd agree that a drug that gave work benefits but resulted in brain damage 2 years later isn't worth it, but let's be specific when talking about what health risks are around for particular chemicals, diets, and…

> Do you drink coffee or caffeinated soda? In fact, I don't, and precisely for this reason. Caffeine addictions seem to be just as bad to me. Instead, I sleep more (enough so I don't have to use an alarm) and strive to cut unnecessary things from my life to save time. For example, I know it's a little cliche, but people survived without TV until 50 or 60 years ago. I got rid of my TV, and it saved me a lot of time.

Do you eat sugary foods? Fatty foods? Ingesting sugar and fat causes your brain to release dopamine. Without this mind-altering biochemistry, people wouldn't be nearly as compelled to eat a piece of a chocolate cake or a piece of bacon.

(Note: dopamine reabsorption is also slowed by caffeine, which is why it improves your mood.)

My point is not to be pedantic, it's to say that no matter what you're ingesting, you're altering your mood. While I'd obviously agree that becoming addicted to mood-altering substances isn't a good thing, I think that (like sugar and fat) they can be used responsibly.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#18

Post by stef25 »

I've taken it a few times when I really had to push hard to meet a deadline (coding). One time while working my sister texted me to say she just boarded her flight to Canada (from Europe). What seemed like a short while after she texted me saying she'd arrived. During her entire flight (6+ hrs) my concentration never flinched. I find it very effective indeed.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#19

Post by corin_ »

> I used a (legal) drug called Modafinil

As far as I'm aware, in both the UK and the US, it's legal only as a prescription drug, i.e. if you buy it online without a prescription it is no longer legal.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#20

Post by corin_ »

w1ntermute wrote: post #8
JulianMorrison wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, nope, coffee is pretty popular. The differences between coffee and modafinil are: coffee tastes better, modafinil does the same job for longer with less side effects.

Popularity is a poor way to judge whether or not something is good for you. If you went back in time 60 years and asked someone whether inhaling large quantities of carcinogenic gases was a bad idea, they'd say "Err, nope, cigarettes are pretty popular" too.

I think that his point was that you wouldn't walk around the office pointing at everyone with a cup of coffee and saying "that crosses the line".

In reply to your original comment - for work you don't care about, I'd agree with you, but plenty of people who do stuff like this, particularly I assume when it comes to HN readers, really do care about their work. For example there's plenty of times I'll work more hours than I technically have to because I want to, and so if I were to take drugs to help that, it wouldn't neccesarily be a case of "get a new job". Incidentally I do smoke, because I enjoy it more than I care about the health risks right now.

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