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Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

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Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#81

Post by yieldcrv »

sokoloff wrote: post #58
yieldcrv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this still happening? Because nationally its been upheld as constitutional and would require a constitutional amendment. This interpretation of the sixth amendment isn't open to other interpretations. Specifically that civil cases are different than criminal cases, so they civilly charge the asset itself and the not the human being. Whoops. Subsequently, some states started changing their own laws to stop th…

There's still the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizures, which seems like it gives grounds here.

drivers either allow the search "I have nothing to hide", or the drug dog gives a false positive for probable cause

the police aren't skipping these procedures

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#82

Post by sokoloff »

yieldcrv wrote: post #81
sokoloff wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizures, which seems like it gives grounds here.

drivers either allow the search "I have nothing to hide", or the drug dog gives a false positive for probable cause the police aren't skipping these procedures

The seizure part is more relevant here.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#83

Post by yieldcrv »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #53
yieldcrv wrote: post #23

I always chuckle when I hear boomers reminiscence about how we differentiate from communist countries because of our strong private property protections. I fail to see a difference aside from shared willingness to for random state actors to play along with that shared desire.

Why throw shade on boomers? I'm pretty sure I could find people of any age on both sides of this.

because that's who I hear it from as if its a whole identity

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#84

Post by mdasen »

bloody-crow wrote: post #69
alanfranz wrote: post #25

While the cited behaviour is really astonishing, as a EU citizen, I must say that I still find it very curious that somebody drives around the country with that large amount of cash. I'd never (and most people here wouldn't either) travel with more than, say, $1000 in cash, and I would rely on ATM/electronic transactions/checks for additional money. Surely it wouldn't be illegal in any EU country that I know of (but…

There's ample evidence that Bouldin was actually driving to Colorado to purchase marijuana products, hence cash. Still though, Colorado has ATMs. Maybe he didn't want to leave paper trail by withdrawing large amounts on cash outside of his home-state, I dunno. Also, marijuana still being federally illegal in 2023 is a joke.

Accounts generally have a daily withdrawal limit at ATMs. If you're traveling with $18,000 in cash, that's probably well above what you can withdraw from an ATM in a day. I think a lot of accounts have ATM limits of $300-1,000 per day. I'm sure there are ones that are higher and I think a lot of banks let you request a higher limit, but I think it's probably more than just a paper trail.

Personally, I'd never travel with that much cash, but I could see withdrawing that amount of cash having potential road blocks if your bank doesn't exist in the state you're traveling to.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#85

Post by raincom »

grogenaut wrote: post #27
_fat_santa wrote: post #20

This raises a question: why carry that much cash with you? Two things can be true at the same time: cops should not be seizing cash from folks on the side of the road without clear evidence of a crime, and it looks shady as hell if you are traveling with $18k in the backseat of your car.

Why should I not have cash on hand? I just redid my deck and fence. I paid Time+Materials. Guy brought me the materials and the receipts, I paid cash for the materials upfront. That was $35k in materials, in several $10k chunks. This happens all the time in the real world. The guy does several jobs at a time. My wife was concerned about us having that much cash in our safe. This contractor is doing it all the time pr…

There is a fight against cash; here, the govt forces private actors (banks, car dealerships, jewelry stores, casinos, etc) to report to the govt, any cash entering/exiting the system > $10K. Govt hates any untraceable monetary instruments, as people can use cash to do 'bad' things: tax evasion, paying under the table, evading child support payments, supporting bad people, etc. If some thing is used for both good and bad deeds, govt wants to make it hard for the good deeds.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#86

Post by alex_young »

tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

Is any of that a crime though? Some text messages implying that he may want to buy something legal in another state? Did they uncover a plan to transport it back through this small NE county? Is the intent to make a legal transaction a crime?

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#87

Post by zarzavat »

adrr wrote: post #22
_fat_santa wrote: post #20

This raises a question: why carry that much cash with you? Two things can be true at the same time: cops should not be seizing cash from folks on the side of the road without clear evidence of a crime, and it looks shady as hell if you are traveling with $18k in the backseat of your car.

Seems like victim blaming like “why was wearing such a short skirt”. It’s not against the law to carry cash.

It seems like it is de facto against the law to carry cash, if it’s legal for the police to confiscate it.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#88

Post by efitz »

CAF makes my blood boil. If not for the uniforms these people would be called bandits.

How did we end up with so many people in law enforcement and the judicial system who have accepted “the end justifies the means” or “you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette”?

I would love to see legislation at every level forbidding civil fines and forfeitures from benefitting the locality imposing them. Let such revenue go to the state or federal treasury and forbid any kickback type scheme (which is how the federal government hooks localities on CAF; they split the take).

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#89

Post by tptacek »

alex_young wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

Is any of that a crime though? Some text messages implying that he may want to buy something legal in another state? Did they uncover a plan to transport it back through this small NE county? Is the intent to make a legal transaction a crime?

Trafficking cannabis through Nebraska is almost certainly a felony, and, as for attempt liability, you could do worse than this comic explanation of how it works: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=344

So: those county sheriffs probably weren't lying that they could jam Bouldin up --- not simply because they can do that to anybody with $18k in cash in their van, but because of the totality of the evidence they collected.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#90

Post by alex_young »

tptacek wrote: post #89
alex_young wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is any of that a crime though? Some text messages implying that he may want to buy something legal in another state? Did they uncover a plan to transport it back through this small NE county? Is the intent to make a legal transaction a crime?

Trafficking cannabis through Nebraska is almost certainly a felony, and, as for attempt liability, you could do worse than this comic explanation of how it works: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=344 So: those county sheriffs probably weren't lying that they could jam Bouldin up --- not simply because they can do that to anybody with $18k in cash in their van, but because of the totality of the evidence they collected.

But he didn’t traffic anything though Nebraska. Did they have evidence that he intended to? Seems unlikely.
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