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Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

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Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#61

Post by lolinder »

tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

What Bouldin described is extortion, plain and simple:

> There, on the side of the road, 1,300 miles from his Virginia home, in a state where Bouldin knew no one, a sheriff’s deputy handed him a form.

> You can sign this piece of paper, abandon the $18,000, avoid arrest and continue on to Colorado, he says he was told.

> Don’t sign, and you will go to jail. You could face felony charges. Your van will be towed. Your dog will be taken to the pound.

I don't care how many laws he'd broken in the past, law enforcement officers should never be allowed to act that way. If they sincerely believed he was breaking the law, their duty was to arrest him and let him be tried by a jury. Offering to let him go in exchange for $18k in cash is pure corruption no matter how you slice it: either he was an innocent victim of extortion, or they were asking for a bribe to let him off the hook.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#62

Post by qingcharles »

_fat_santa wrote: post #20

This raises a question: why carry that much cash with you? Two things can be true at the same time: cops should not be seizing cash from folks on the side of the road without clear evidence of a crime, and it looks shady as hell if you are traveling with $18k in the backseat of your car.

Some people prefer cash, some have no bank accounts (mostly immigrants, homeless, those released from prison).

My landlord just got hit head-on by a drunk driver and had to refuse an ambulance because he had a stack of rent cash in his truck and was too worried about it.

Almost all civil in rem forfeiture cases never go to court because they start with a civil process that requires the claimant to file a bunch of complicated paperwork just to initiate the court process to dispute the forfeiture. Then they have to go to court, usually for months or years, to fight the forfeiture, where the prosecutors are going to try to drown you in discovery procedures and interrogatories and requests to admit that any normal person is not going to comprehend without paying tens of thousands to a lawyer to deal with. Checkmate.

I beat one of these on my own, and I spent probably 100 hours in court watching thousands of cases and got to learn a whole lot about how these work. The prosecutors would regularly lie to me and tell me the judge wasn't coming when I would turn up to court and I would sign a waiver for a continuance until I figured out their tricks. In the end I would sit in the court and help people negotiate settlements, which really made the prosecutors mad. I had figured out that the prosecution would settle most cases by giving 80% of the money back to avoid trial. In my own case they filed the forfeiture in the wrong county and so they lacked jurisdiction "ab initio" as they say in Rome.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#63

Post by kickout »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36
alanfranz wrote: post #25

While the cited behaviour is really astonishing, as a EU citizen, I must say that I still find it very curious that somebody drives around the country with that large amount of cash. I'd never (and most people here wouldn't either) travel with more than, say, $1000 in cash, and I would rely on ATM/electronic transactions/checks for additional money. Surely it wouldn't be illegal in any EU country that I know of (but…

As a Canadian I’ve wondered stuff like that too. What I think I’ve learned is that Americans can be deeply principled people. Beyond reasons like “I’m buying a used car” or “yes this is drug money” there’s also the reason of, “I’m doing it because it’s my right to.” And I’ve met many Americans who do things for no personal gain other than just to keep their rights exercised. I used to scoff at this kind of thing. But…

Correct. A lot but not all of these are likely legit drug seizures, but there should be absolutely no way LE has free reign like this. Physical cash/gold/asset possession should be protected by all countries IMO

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#64

Post by tptacek »

lolinder wrote: post #61
tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

What Bouldin described is extortion, plain and simple: > There, on the side of the road, 1,300 miles from his Virginia home, in a state where Bouldin knew no one, a sheriff’s deputy handed him a form. > You can sign this piece of paper, abandon the $18,000, avoid arrest and continue on to Colorado, he says he was told. > Don’t sign, and you will go to jail. You could face felony charges. Your van will be towed. Your…

That is a perfectly reasonable argument, albeit not one the article makes forthrightly.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#65

Post by [deleted] »

alanfranz wrote: post #25

While the cited behaviour is really astonishing, as a EU citizen, I must say that I still find it very curious that somebody drives around the country with that large amount of cash. I'd never (and most people here wouldn't either) travel with more than, say, $1000 in cash, and I would rely on ATM/electronic transactions/checks for additional money. Surely it wouldn't be illegal in any EU country that I know of (but…

[deleted]

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#66

Post by jcpst »

alanfranz wrote: post #25

While the cited behaviour is really astonishing, as a EU citizen, I must say that I still find it very curious that somebody drives around the country with that large amount of cash. I'd never (and most people here wouldn't either) travel with more than, say, $1000 in cash, and I would rely on ATM/electronic transactions/checks for additional money. Surely it wouldn't be illegal in any EU country that I know of (but…

The only reason I wouldn’t drive around with that much cash is because I don’t want the police to rob me. Seriously.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#67

Post by 29athrowaway »

jlick wrote: post #57
29athrowaway wrote: post #15

I see it as some sort of punishment for not using the banking system, which is where transactions, balances and such can be observed by the IRS. When you use a bank account, all transactions over $10,000 are reported to the IRS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act

...also if you make deposits just under $10k or make multiple deposits that add up to $10k+ in $ArbitraryTimePeriod they can be reported as suspected "structuring." Structuring is a technique to spread out transactions to avoid reporting. But it also catches people who just happen to have transactions that look like structuring. There was an example of a rural store owner that made deposits around $8k because that wa…

Yes. They also can flag you using Benford's law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#69

Post by bloody-crow »

alanfranz wrote: post #25

While the cited behaviour is really astonishing, as a EU citizen, I must say that I still find it very curious that somebody drives around the country with that large amount of cash. I'd never (and most people here wouldn't either) travel with more than, say, $1000 in cash, and I would rely on ATM/electronic transactions/checks for additional money. Surely it wouldn't be illegal in any EU country that I know of (but…

There's ample evidence that Bouldin was actually driving to Colorado to purchase marijuana products, hence cash.

Still though, Colorado has ATMs. Maybe he didn't want to leave paper trail by withdrawing large amounts on cash outside of his home-state, I dunno.

Also, marijuana still being federally illegal in 2023 is a joke.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#70

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

So he was driving, with money, to a place where cannabis is legal, while smelling like cannabis? Sounds like Nebraska just needs to legalize it too so they can find a less shady way to get their slice of the pie.
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