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Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

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Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#41

Post by missedthecue »

ezzaf wrote: post #22

Perhaps a more accurate headline would have been this buried deeper in the article "The US worked through Third World countries and fake companies and finally was able to ship the ore to the US to build the SR-71." And to complete the loop, Russia is now importing sanctioned American microchips for its missiles via third parties. I wonder if the order form states they will be used in smart pizzas ovens.

80% of the world's silicon and magnesium comes from Russia/China. US can't make the stealth coating on the F-35 without it. Can't control where the big bang placed mineral deposits...

*Technically silicon is everywhere but until the US and EU are willing to rip up their riverbeds to get at it, it's as good as nonexistent there.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#42

Post by nwallin »

Does any know any more details about this? It's a fun tidbit that gets a link/article on social media every few weeks, but it's never anything more than a tidbit. "The US needed titanium for the SR-71. The only supplier of titanium was the Soviet Union. So the US bought it from the Soviet Union through a shell corporation." But that's it. It's those 3 facts and only those three facts expressed in anywhere between one sentence and 10 paragraphs.

They never mention that the #1 worldwide producer of titanium is Australia. They never mention that South Africa produces a lot as well. They rarely mention the name of the shell company. (Red Sea something?) They don't talk about whether alternatives were considered.

I just feel like there's probably an interesting story there, but we never hear it, just the tidbit that can fit in the headline.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#43

Post by relativ575 »

akira2501 wrote: post #28

The US "intelligence" apparatus created a particular cover story. There's no actual information as to what the USSR actually believed at the time. If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return. They were already in the business of exporting it, it's not as if we got them to create a special market based on this cockamamie…

> If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return.

You really bend it to fit your narrative. Not sure what the Soviets believed, but no sane country would want to help their adversaries to achieve stronger offensive capabilities, which surveillance would no doubt help.

Bribery though, that wouldn't be too outrageous. I don't see why CIA want to hide that fact though. Bribery along with blackmailing are common spying tools.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#44

Post by [deleted] »

nwallin wrote: post #42

Does any know any more details about this? It's a fun tidbit that gets a link/article on social media every few weeks, but it's never anything more than a tidbit. "The US needed titanium for the SR-71. The only supplier of titanium was the Soviet Union. So the US bought it from the Soviet Union through a shell corporation." But that's it. It's those 3 facts and only those three facts expressed in anywhere between one…

[deleted]

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#45

Post by fy20 »

Factories in the USSR often had a shortage of parts, but they still had to meet production quotas. This usually meant a reduction in quality, but it goes the other way too. I've heard stories that consumer appliance factories would run out of stainless steel, so they would use titanium alloy instead, as it was more plentiful.

In my country, one of the most unique consumer appliances they made was a potato grating machine. Today the same device continues to made, unchanged since Soviet times.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#47

Post by NotYourLawyer »

relativ575 wrote: post #43
akira2501 wrote: post #28

The US "intelligence" apparatus created a particular cover story. There's no actual information as to what the USSR actually believed at the time. If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return. They were already in the business of exporting it, it's not as if we got them to create a special market based on this cockamamie…

> If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return. You really bend it to fit your narrative. Not sure what the Soviets believed, but no sane country would want to help their adversaries to achieve stronger offensive capabilities, which surveillance would no doubt help. Bribery though, that wouldn't be too outrageous. I don't…

And accepting bribes was a common USSR technique.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#48

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #14
epmos wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rutile is used in refractory bricks and the import was of the ore mineral. So not completely unbelievable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutile#Application

There was no shortage of TiO₂ in the US. It's used everywhere. They were specifically importing the refined metal because the soviets had the only viable production capacity.

This is the case for many materials. The raw material itself is not rare, the bottleneck is the refining/processing capability and thus the refined material is scarce.

- The shortage of lumber in US a few years was due to lack of saw mills, not trees

- Shortage of semi-conductor grade Neon due to lack of plants that can refine the gas to the required purity

- Shortages of oil derived products due to constraints on refining

- "Rare earth" shortages as few countries refine. China is one of the few countries willing to tolerate the pollution generated from the refining processes.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#49

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

relativ575 wrote: post #43
akira2501 wrote: post #28

The US "intelligence" apparatus created a particular cover story. There's no actual information as to what the USSR actually believed at the time. If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return. They were already in the business of exporting it, it's not as if we got them to create a special market based on this cockamamie…

> If they weren't particularly interesting in competing in aerial surveillance then it may have been seen as worth the money they got in return. You really bend it to fit your narrative. Not sure what the Soviets believed, but no sane country would want to help their adversaries to achieve stronger offensive capabilities, which surveillance would no doubt help. Bribery though, that wouldn't be too outrageous. I don't…

> no sane country

We’re talking about russia/USSR here.

Re: Soviet Union sold titanium to US believing they needed it for pizza ovens

#50

Post by dylan604 »

nwallin wrote: post #42

Does any know any more details about this? It's a fun tidbit that gets a link/article on social media every few weeks, but it's never anything more than a tidbit. "The US needed titanium for the SR-71. The only supplier of titanium was the Soviet Union. So the US bought it from the Soviet Union through a shell corporation." But that's it. It's those 3 facts and only those three facts expressed in anywhere between one…

The public never hears about our successes, only our failures.
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