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Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

texastribune.org

71–80 of 140 posts

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#71
post #28

Those mandatory water break laws confuse me. Is it because businesses are refusing to let their workers take water breaks? Or because workers don’t realize when they need a water break? I find it hard to believe either of those things are generally true*. *: Perhaps there are some outliers - businesses that genuinely slavedrive their workers, or workers that genuinely can’t tell when they’re about to die. But are tho…

Folks on site often just want to get the job done and can view stuff like regular breaks for water as an obstacle if they feel they don’t need it, whether that’s an individual working through their break or a crew chief who grumbles about people setting tools down for it. Unfortunately people aren’t very good judges of when they need a break for water working in hot conditions. Cal-OSHA has an entire additional train…

I can see the wisdom in that, certainly. It does seem like it’s an OSHA issue so I’m not sure why these laws were passed directly by local government instead of being enforced by OSHA, but I can imagine good reasons - maybe OSHA does not have the power to mandate the specific things needed to make this situation safer (although in the case of “breaks and water” it seems like they probably would?)

I’ve worked in heavily OSHA-regulated industries (complete with “random unannounced safety inspections”, including being interviewed by OSHA). At least in my experience in Australia, OSHA was pretty good about enforcing the more effective and less onerous safety measures (that neither us nor our boss cared much about, but objectively did benefit from, so OSHA did good work there), and not enforcing the less effective and more onerous safety measures (some of which were frankly ridiculous, like requiring three points of contact at all times when climbing a staircase to a tool storage shed - it is quite difficult to carry anything up stairs when you have to have both hands on the railings whenever you lift a foot!)

Perhaps that is the best argument for removing these laws. OSHA has a lot of expertise in managing the balance of safety and productivity, so they should be the ones in charge of deciding on how often and how mandatory heat breaks should be. These laws made by non-OSHA bodies are perhaps too rigid: they could simultaneously be overkill for some situations (like indoor installations) while being wholly insufficient for other situations (like road repair) - and yet the workers, the employees, and the safety inspectors all working together in the goal of safety are unable to adapt them to the situation because it rests with uninvolved (and potentially even uninformed) lawmakers instead. I’d note that from reading the article it doesn’t seem like this is the major motivation behind the attempt to repeal these laws, although something like this is marshaled as an argument.

edit to add: apparently OSHA standards already limit work in 104F conditions to a maximum of 20 minutes per hour and unlimited cool-down breaks whenever the worker requests it, which is far more generous than these water break laws. There is some suggestion that in fact the real purpose of these water break laws were to give companies a way to circumvent the more restrictive OSHA requirements. Things may be much more complicated than they first appeared.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience many safety rules are there to force workers to do stuff they don't want to do. Like wear helmets or whatever. Management has to be quite bad before they are the weak link.

And this applies to drinking water?

Yes. I assume the workers are able to drink any time they want?

"The law will nullify ordinances enacted by Austin in 2010 and Dallas in 2015 that established 10-minute breaks every four hours so that construction workers can drink water and protect themselves from the sun."

Like, every 4th hour? You need to drink maybe every 15th minute if it is hot and you work with your body.

I smell a forced water break to ensure people drink water. But I should be clear that I have no knowledge of Texas construction work conditions.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#73
Okay guys, focus on the real issue here, which is Texas state government is Republican, but every major Texas city is Democratic.

So rural Texas bumpkins want to impose a rule of law on their economic engines (while conveniently decrying interference from federal agencies on things like policing, voting rights, LGBTQ discrimination, border policy, etc)

This is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner, while the wolves cry about "big government" and having agendas forced on them.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#74
post #43

As a lifelong Texan who now lives in California— Texas has absolutely no problem overriding municipal and county governments, the biggest of which are solidly blue. It’s a pattern they’ve repeated for over 20 years, often more so as a show of force than anything that affects things at a state level: - Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. - Anything t…

I am curious what your experience was like moving TX=>CA. I've been considering the same.

Between being queer and having a trans daughter, I feel far less worried that the government will arbitrarily impoverish, imprison, or kill me, or kidnap my children. Or that one of the locals will take it upon themselves to do so.

I don't care if the rent in Texas was negative.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#75
post #58

The bill in question https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB02127F.... Maybe I didn't read it properly but water breaks are not under attack

The bill imposes novel limitations on what regulations municipalities are allowed to enact/enforce. You won't find the impact of the bill in its text -- to find that, you'd need to read the municipal regulations that would be superceded. Mandatory water breaks (a paltry 10 minutes each 4 hours) are but one example.

Here is the Texas Workforce Commission on breaks

https://efte.twc.texas.gov/d_breaks.html

"Rest or coffee breaks, defined as 20 minutes or less, are compensable hours worked under 29 C.F.R. 785.18, since they are regarded as being for the benefit of both the employer and the employee."

This is 29 C.F.R. 785.18, a federal regulation

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/s...

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#76

As a lifelong Texan who now lives in California— Texas has absolutely no problem overriding municipal and county governments, the biggest of which are solidly blue. It’s a pattern they’ve repeated for over 20 years, often more so as a show of force than anything that affects things at a state level: - Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. - Anything t…

Election stuff like that would be simply outright unconstitutional in Germany.

Texas is probably the least democratic of all the states.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#77
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ones that basically tell their staff they can’t drink water I would have to believe quickly will find no one will want to work for I've never done something as difficult as construction, but I was a cashier, sanding still on concrete all day for 8 hours, no fun. I don't think anyone wanted to do that, but there they were doing it anyway. And there they still are every time I go to the store, no stool to sit on, sta…

There are very very few jobs that people actually want to do - and some places do provide stools. Aldi’s does and they’re notoriously famous for overworking their cashiers as much as they can. I’d expect to see stools at union grocery stories (but I don’t) so it must not be that big of a complaint. I have seen that almost all now have those padded floor things.

Aldi probably does this because all grocery cashiers in Germany (home of Aldi) have seats at their registers, and are sitting most of the time. Aldi here also makes them do all sorts of jobs around the store when their registers aren’t needed, so I guess being able to sit at the register is a legal requirement.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#78

As a lifelong Texan who now lives in California— Texas has absolutely no problem overriding municipal and county governments, the biggest of which are solidly blue. It’s a pattern they’ve repeated for over 20 years, often more so as a show of force than anything that affects things at a state level: - Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. - Anything t…

> Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. Most “bag bans” are a propaganda campaign to frame the last participant in the supply chain as the culprit of everything. I’ve heard of stores that let you bring your own glass jars to fill up on e.g. almonds. That sounds more practical.

> Most “bag bans” are a propaganda campaign to frame the last participant in the supply chain as the culprit of everything.

I doubt you meant it this way, but this is the thing that peeves me most about the Republican party continuing to spout on about local control, small government, and personal freedoms. As soon as a locality makes a choice they don't like (bag bans), or a person uses their freedom in a way they don't like (marrying the wrong person, consuming the wrong plant), suddenly the same people are scrambling to explain why those things are exceptions to their principles, because, well they're bad. There's never a stronger argument for why it should be an exception just "we think it's bad". Yet the whole point of these supposed principles is that these decisions should be made locally or personally. Otherwise it's just as valid for someone to say should be decided locally because it's bad.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Election stuff like that would be simply outright unconstitutional in Germany.

Texas is probably the least democratic of all the states.

From the outside looking in, the whole of the US is, despite pretty decent split between the executive and legeslative branches, a lot less democratic the at least I believed for a very long time.

Re: Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified

#80

As a lifelong Texan who now lives in California— Texas has absolutely no problem overriding municipal and county governments, the biggest of which are solidly blue. It’s a pattern they’ve repeated for over 20 years, often more so as a show of force than anything that affects things at a state level: - Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. - Anything t…

Honestly, this sounds like an advertisement for Texas to me. Kind of want to move there (I live in California).

Red light cameras are also banned state-wide in Texas.
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