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Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#391

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #375
lloeki wrote: post #141

Well, because it has? Hover over the green stoplight, you get a popover with fullscreen options. Press Option and the fullscreen options mutate into snap left/snap right/zoom. These can also be found in the Window menu. Again, press option to mutate the fullscreen ones to snap. And since these are menu options, one can set any keyboard shortcut of their choosing through the keyboard shortcut prefpane+. So it is not "…

Steve Jobs hated full screen windows. It’s why “maximize” expands based on content and not screen size. I haven’t used a Mac in years but that might still be part of the reason.

Except he presided over an OS that shunned the evolution that every other OS arrived at: Menus belong on applications' main frames, not glued to the top of the monitor screen.

This is why Mac apps have a long history of barfing out an irritating flotilla of windows all over the place. Mac OS turns the entire screen into the client area of ONE application, whereas other GUIs can treat the desktop as an infinite workspace.

The welcome move to single-window applications on the Mac has made the blunder of the single menu even more obvious, as users minimize an application and think they're resuming work on the previous one... only to find that the menu is still owned by the application they have dismissed. Absurd and dumb.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#392

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

gramie wrote: post #353
robbiep wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would HATE if my phone kept on informing me of missed calls or messages when I’ve put it down somewhere. I’ll check it in my terms; that’s why it’s not in my hand

One of my previous (Android) phones had a red light that would blink if there was a missed call or message. I found it extremely convenient.

1990s phones had this option, in addition to AUDIBLE alerts.

Again, as an OPTION. It's incredible that people go apeshit when you suggest this optional feature that everyone accepted as standard for years. You can see it right here in this thread of "tech" people.

This is why design and usability are going backward.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#393

Post by dwaite »

crimsontech wrote: post #282
jrmg wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can discover so many things on Mac by Option-clicking! It’s used in many places to give an ‘alternate’ function to buttons and the like.

Indeed, I think it’s a relic from the one button mouse.

not really, that’s control-clicking. They’d need four buttons to cover the permutations (before you even get to command and shift clicking)

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#394

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

Apple has, for 20+ years now, wrestled with workarounds to the Mac's central UI blunder: making all applications share a single menu that's glued to the top of the screen.

Every other windowing OS recognized that menus belong on their applications' main window frames, which makes the desktop an unlimited workspace.

Apple should have made the same transition with OS X, but, in true Apple fashion, petulantly refused to acknowledge that others got it right. So we're stuck with this idiotic swapping of menu contents behind the user's back. If you're temporarily done with an application and minimize it, revealing the one you were working with before... guess what? You're still using the menu for the application you "dismissed." Asinine.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#395

Post by DimmieMan »

taejavu wrote: post #265
SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

The alternative explanation seems to be that they know it’s far from perfect, but lack the appetite to rethink from first principles. So they come up with some feature that will help some specific scenario, and just pile that onto the stack of shit.

I think they’re too afraid of ‘removing the spacebar heater’(https://xkcd.com/1172/).

You go look at early Mac OS X and it’s strikingly similar, it’s well and truly reached a point where they need a shakeup but are scared of the short term pain in breaking user workflows.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#396

Post by RexM »

lloeki wrote: post #141

Well, because it has? Hover over the green stoplight, you get a popover with fullscreen options. Press Option and the fullscreen options mutate into snap left/snap right/zoom. These can also be found in the Window menu. Again, press option to mutate the fullscreen ones to snap. And since these are menu options, one can set any keyboard shortcut of their choosing through the keyboard shortcut prefpane+. So it is not "…

Thanks. I recently switched to macOS from Windows after changing jobs and didn’t know this.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#397

Post by djfdat »

sys_64738 wrote: post #80
djfdat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt-tab to switch between browser tabs in Edge is new, a setting that you can turn off, and in some cases, it's actually very useful, since you can limit the number of tabs. It lets me treat recent tabs the same way as I would treat recent applications, which many websites effectively are. But anyways, that choice is made available to you. I don't currently use multiple monitors, but I do use virtual desktops, and...…

I want all these turned off by default and not need to stumble through trying to figure out how to disable them. Windows now feels like using Android where you need to google first to figure out how to modify something. In terms of virtual desktops, having independent control per monitor is so elementary that it makes the feature pretty useless otherwise.

But these are new features that Microsoft decided would be an improvement for most people, and many people happily use them. For those of us stuck in our ways, yes we have to do a little tweaking, but that's the cost we pay. At least we have the option available to us.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#398

Post by djfdat »

Gigachad wrote: post #379
djfdat wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Peek at desktop - Quick hide-all-windows to copy something from your desktop to your clipboard, then bring everything back - Alt-tab, especially when it comes to apps with multiple windows, and windows in different states, such as minimized - A modern/fully-featured default web browser without a locked down extension ecosystem. - A start menu for seeing all your applications - A taskbar with application grouping -…

> The concept of uninstalling an application vs just deleting the application Uninstalling is a workaround for the failure of windows to actually contain an apps data. The way macos handles it is much better.

But isn't there app data still left around on the disk somewhere in Library? Aren't apps able to generate and save off app data outside of the .app?

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#399

Post by filchermcurr »

sleepybrett wrote: post #343
nine_k wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great way to waste both the screen real estate and the user's attention. MacOS has a number of interesting features in the kernel, and it has a reasonably good and highly uniform UI, with global shortcuts and all. But its window management is insufferable. Good thing there are utilities that try to help that. (I already forgot which, I handed back my last work-provided MBP in 2018.)

Most users of macos are fullscreen users. End of. Power users can find and write power user solutions.

That seems like a bold statement. I know a loooot of macOS users (myself included) and none of us ever use fullscreen.

Without some kind of data in hand, it's anecdotal either way, so I figured I'd throw my hat in.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#400

Post by djfdat »

jitl wrote: post #79
djfdat wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Peek at desktop - Quick hide-all-windows to copy something from your desktop to your clipboard, then bring everything back - Alt-tab, especially when it comes to apps with multiple windows, and windows in different states, such as minimized - A modern/fully-featured default web browser without a locked down extension ecosystem. - A start menu for seeing all your applications - A taskbar with application grouping -…

Desktop peek: Part of “Mission Control”: spread thumb and 3 fingers, or press Fn+F11. Alt tab: press cmd-tab to cycle applications, then cmd-` to cycle windows of that application. This typically has better number-of-keypress to get the window you want compared to Windows alt-tab which requires iterating over all windows in the worst case. Browser: Safari is fits your criteria Start menu to see all apps: this is call…

Desktop Peek: I'll try setting this up on a hot corner and see how it works for me. I don't think I'll use it with a keyboard shortcut, so maybe I can remember to use it this way.

Alt+Tab: Using Ctrl+` tab switch between windows of an application is annoying second layer to me. I'm going to have to live with it, because the half-dozen or so third-party applications that I've tried to recreate Windows behavior either fail, work differently than I want, or have been abandoned.

Browser: I was specifically saying not this. I really really try to like Safari, but every time I start trying to use it as my primary browser, I start running in to annoying roadblocks that insist I work in the "Apple way".

Launch Pad: I forgot about this, I removed it from the dock. Doesn't open as easily as the start menu, with it's own dedicated button, and organizing it is terrible. Just like Launchpad on iOS. Start Menu Tiles and the ability to mix files/apps is way more powerful and behaves the way I expect. I do really like Raycast/Alfred, but I miss the comfort of an organized start menu.

Uninstall - I do think that this is fine, but an uninstall wizard is sometimes helpful. For Backup settings mostly, but I guess there really should just be a better way to do that.

Function Key Row - I do have this swapped to function keys by default, but what I was referring to was the touchbar macbook models. Terrible design choice that was thrust upon users.

Settings: Fair points on the different styles, but that doesn't bother me much. Like I said, I've been Windows for a really long time, so the familiarity outweighs the inconsistency. System Preferences was okay, but had options scattered where they shouldn't be. And System Settings now is definitely worse.

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