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Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#361

Post by abeyer »

mahathu wrote: post #349
gibbitz wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like scroll direction, having a sim card in your phone, using accepted standard cables, giving users access to their own files, using standardized file formats, etc. These guys abuse their users and somehow they believe Apple cares about them. Not sure when everyone will wake up and realize that arbitrary change isn't better than expected behavior. I guess when the industry points "AI" at generating OSes then Apple w…

The default scroll direction on macOS absolutely makes sense from a UX perspective. On a phone, you scroll up by physically touching the same display your content is on, so you have to move your finger down on the screen, which makes sense on phones but not on computers where the content is separate from the touchpad.

Which is exactly why it shouldn't be modeled as manipulating the content, but rather the viewport/scroll thumb.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#362

Post by least »

surfpel wrote: post #110
rr842j wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have to meet anybody that is not at a minimum annoyed by the macos animations. I literally stopped using the spaces feature because of that!. The default animation got me dizzy all the time, but even with that one disabled via accessibility settings they keep a terribly slow fading animation. It's absolutely ridiculous for a professional machine to impose these things on you.

Those animations are there to help people maintain a spacial understanding of their GUI. Most people are not highly technical power users who get annoyed by the small delays, this is a bias I see a lot on HN. I do agree that their accessibility options should allow for more customization of animations, though. I use ‘magnet’ for window control and it’s instant. Highly recommend. Just wish switching between desktops c…

It can be... if you disable SIP.

Yabai has many of these fixes that exists, even if you don't use the auto tiling features[1].

[1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/wiki/Disabling-System-I...

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#363

Post by nijave »

saghm wrote: post #151
lloeki wrote: post #141

Well, because it has? Hover over the green stoplight, you get a popover with fullscreen options. Press Option and the fullscreen options mutate into snap left/snap right/zoom. These can also be found in the Window menu. Again, press option to mutate the fullscreen ones to snap. And since these are menu options, one can set any keyboard shortcut of their choosing through the keyboard shortcut prefpane+. So it is not "…

The only Apple device I use is the laptop I was given for work, and I've always disliked that the button that would "maximize" the window on other OS instead makes the window "fullscreen" (getting rid of the menu and everything else that entails). I recently discovered that I am actually able to "maximize" by double-clicking the top bar of the window, but I have no idea if this is something that works by default or i…

Once I got used to gestures, I actually like macOS window management more than Linux/Windows for single monitor. It seems a bit clunky if you have multiple monitors

Cmd Left/Right to change between fullscreen windows. Cmd Up Arrow to show all of the fullscreen windows. Using the trackpad, 3 finger swipe up to show all the windows. Either 3 finger or 2 finger swipe left/right to switch between them.

When 2 windows are fullscreen, you can use Cmd Up Arrow to show all of them and drag 1 window in the bar at the top onto another window icon in the bar at the top to do a vertical split (only works for 2 windows)

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#364

Post by crazygringo »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #281
SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

The idea behind macOS window management is to not manage windows at all, instead letting them exist at sizes that fit their content in whichever position they land on your desktop, stacking and overlapping like papers on a desk, letting relevant bits peek through without requiring the entirety of their host windows being visible. Exposé/Mission Control are there when a window gets lost, and virtual desktops are meant…

This is true.

Which is what is so bizarre about it. Everything else about Apple is about cleanliness, focus, minimalism, simplicity.

Yet the windowing system is designed so that everything's overlapping, it's hard to pick out your foreground window from 20 other background windows of varying shapes and sizes and positions, and bringing up Expose/Mission Control shows you something like a detective's corkboard as he tries to connect the dots to solve the case of the serial killer.

It's quite jarring when the rest of the Apple aesthetic is clean minimal lines, and then your windows are this separate universe where it looks like a three-year-old tossed rectangles all over the place and never cleaned up after themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#365

Post by Noumenon72 »

bayindirh wrote: post #309
lloeki wrote: post #141

Well, because it has? Hover over the green stoplight, you get a popover with fullscreen options. Press Option and the fullscreen options mutate into snap left/snap right/zoom. These can also be found in the Window menu. Again, press option to mutate the fullscreen ones to snap. And since these are menu options, one can set any keyboard shortcut of their choosing through the keyboard shortcut prefpane+. So it is not "…

Also, there's Magnet which does KDE-like window snapping since ages. It's not expensive, works flawlessly and doesn't tax your system in any way.

What I love about my Mac is anything I found that seemed weird to me on first go, there was an app to make it behave exactly the way I would want. I love Magnet and sure hope I will always have it.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#366

Post by least »

derefr wrote: post #129
modeless wrote: post #12

What about that interminable animation every time you fullscreen a window or switch between fullscreen windows? It should be at least twice as fast and there's not even any way to hack it to speed it up. You just have to live with it. ("reduce motion" changes it to a crossfade but doesn't make it faster) While we're at it, the Dock has always been bad. And the top menu bar was good for the original Macintosh with a t…

Maybe it's inherently slow, because it's a "loading transition" like in video games. Takes a second for the new backing virtual desktop to be allocated, and for the window to potentially grab new assets to redraw (think: resizing iMovie window larger ⇒ larger timeline preview ⇒ re-rendering timeline thumbnails); and the animation plays on the old desktop while this is going on in the background on the new desktop, so…

This is disproven by the fact that Yabai [1] can instantly swap spaces with SIP disabled.

[1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#367

Post by crazygringo »

SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

I agree with you on this 1,000%. The only parallel I can think of in recent history is Google's seemingly 15 different messaging apps. And learning all of the weird rules you've described reminds me of programming CSS to take account of IE6 quirks. There's no rhyme or reason.

It makes no sense, and every time they add a new paradigm it just makes it worse. I had high hopes that Stage Manager would finally solve it, but I turned it off after a week. It was just more of the same nonsense.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#368

Post by dombesz »

jdlshore wrote: post #165
saghm wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only Apple device I use is the laptop I was given for work, and I've always disliked that the button that would "maximize" the window on other OS instead makes the window "fullscreen" (getting rid of the menu and everything else that entails). I recently discovered that I am actually able to "maximize" by double-clicking the top bar of the window, but I have no idea if this is something that works by default or i…

Default behavior of the green button click is full-screen, but option-click maximizes. The behavior of double-clicking the title bar is controlled by the "Dock & Menu Bar" settings pane. It can be configured to minimize the window instead. You can also double-click any edge or corner to maximize from that side alone. Option-double-clicking will grow both sides. I like to option-double-click my Terminal windows to max…

Apparently, this was an existing feature on older macOs-es. I used it a lot, but it has been removed as a default setting like ~8 years ago. But luckily you can still add this shortcut to macOs, this is the first thing I do when I get a fresh install:

1. Go to System Settings -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> App Shortcuts 2. Click the small (+) button under the shortcuts table. 3. Choose/Type the following values in the modal: - Application: All Applications - Menu Title: Zoom - Keyboard shortcut: Command + Shift + M (My preferred shortcut) 4. Click Save. 5. Voila, now you are able to maximize any window, and pressing it again it goes back to its original size. A cool trick is that now if you hover the green (+) button on the top of any page you will be able to access that shortcut from there as well. It sits just under the "Enter Full Screen" menu option.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#369

Post by cmckn »

saghm wrote: post #151
lloeki wrote: post #141

Well, because it has? Hover over the green stoplight, you get a popover with fullscreen options. Press Option and the fullscreen options mutate into snap left/snap right/zoom. These can also be found in the Window menu. Again, press option to mutate the fullscreen ones to snap. And since these are menu options, one can set any keyboard shortcut of their choosing through the keyboard shortcut prefpane+. So it is not "…

The only Apple device I use is the laptop I was given for work, and I've always disliked that the button that would "maximize" the window on other OS instead makes the window "fullscreen" (getting rid of the menu and everything else that entails). I recently discovered that I am actually able to "maximize" by double-clicking the top bar of the window, but I have no idea if this is something that works by default or i…

The title bar double-click is configurable. I think minimize is a more useful, but maximize is the default.

You can also double click on any edge of a window to expand that edge to the edge of the display.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#370

Post by kitsunesoba »

crazygringo wrote: post #364
kitsunesoba wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea behind macOS window management is to not manage windows at all, instead letting them exist at sizes that fit their content in whichever position they land on your desktop, stacking and overlapping like papers on a desk, letting relevant bits peek through without requiring the entirety of their host windows being visible. Exposé/Mission Control are there when a window gets lost, and virtual desktops are meant…

This is true. Which is what is so bizarre about it. Everything else about Apple is about cleanliness, focus, minimalism, simplicity. Yet the windowing system is designed so that everything's overlapping, it's hard to pick out your foreground window from 20 other background windows of varying shapes and sizes and positions, and bringing up Expose/Mission Control shows you something like a detective's corkboard as he t…

Well, it is simplistic from a certain point of view. If we rewind to the mid-to-late 80s with the Lisa and original Mac, which do you think most users at that point would find more simple and natural: windows that act as analogues of physical papers on a desk, or windows that have no real life equivalent and resize to fill empty space under arbitrary conditions?

Granted, that was ~40 years ago and things are different now, but you can see where the roots of the idea trace back to, and the idea probably has some level of relevance even today. As noted in my other comment, on Windows users often opt out of window management entirely by maximizing everything because it's simpler.

> it's hard to pick out your foreground window from 20 other background windows

This is mostly a casualty of two things: first, the flat UI epidemic which stripped contrast from UIs and made active/inactive windows states less distinct from each other and second, the proliferation of web/Electron apps which for the most part do not implement inactive states for controls at all.

If you boot up a Mac running the last non-flat OS version (10.9 Mavericks) and do work on it with entirely native apps, you'll find that the active window is very visibly active and background windows are very visibly inactive.

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