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Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

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Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#81

Post by pcthrowaway »

Arainach wrote: post #64
Certhas wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about the gameplay outside the dialogue is a bit silly though. Why people still love it are writing and plot. The mechanics were simply the bog standard mechanics of the day and don't matter much. Which games would you say have bested it in terms of writing/plot? I see a few but not very many really. Disco Elysium would be the first but that also stands alone in terms of quality. (That said, don't get to game…

Dialog doesn't make it "one of the best cRPGs of all time" or even necessarily worth playing in 2023. That's the rose tinted glasses. The gameplay is absolutely an important part of "should I play this now". Plenty of games that were good when they came out aren't worth investing hours in today. Bioshock Infinite comes to mind.

I disagree, I want a game to have either passable gameplay or for its gameplay to just get out of the way.

If a game is relatively linear (think Last of Us, To the Moon, Alan Wake), I'm actually inclined to just watch a lets play because I can skip the "gameplay" parts.

Maybe that makes me the minority, but I don't think it invalidates the opinions of people saying PS:T was a phenomenal game even if the gameplay was nothing special

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#83

Post by klipklop »

Like others have said, the final game is different. One of the best games ever made with one of the most creative settings.

Really loved the NPC companions. They were so deep and some of them you could make more powerful just by having a conversation with them. It’s a rare D&D property where wisdom is a more important stat than strength.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#84

Post by okasaki »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #47
smcl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

It strikes me as not a little weird that the word for a hot, sexy member of either sex is the same as a word for a very, very small child. Like, "Why, hello there, infant." dogwhistle

[flagged]

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#85

Post by pcthrowaway »

xanathar wrote: post #22
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have rose tinted glasses when they talk about old games. PS:T was a cut above the other cRPGs of its time mainly because it had adequate writing and an engaging story when most other cRPGs were trite. Still everything after Raven’s maze is just average until the ending where it gets good again and the gameplay outside of dialogue is frankly uninteresting. It’s in a lot of way like the original Dark Soul whose…

I am a Planescape Torment extreme fanboy and... I have to agree. But it's still worth playing, it is still better than the median cRPG almost 25 years later, and it remains a milestone in cRPGs history: i.e. just like Sgt Peppers or Dark Side of the Moon are still worth listening today.

> Sgt Peppers

Interesting.. I consider this one of the best albums of all time, unrelated to the "standards of the time" or whatever.

I also don't think I've played a CRPG I enjoyed as much as Planescape. Some of the fallout games may have been pretty close, though I never finished any of them

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#86

Post by ajuc »

hn_go_brrrrr wrote: post #80
ajuc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a common problem artists have to deal with. The art they want to make (and that fans want to get) vs the industry approval filter. You have to lie to at least one of these groups. See new Netflix shows for how idiotic and self-sabotaging it can get if you choose lying to fans (see Witcher).

What's the problem with the Witcher?

First season was mostly ok, there were some "representation" changes but not too bad. 2nd season they changed everything to the point that it's easier to list what didn't changed. And they changed it for worse... Third season is supposedly so far off that the main actor Henry Caville who is a big fan of the books resigned.

Imagine Peter Jackson made Sam betray Frodo and sell him to Saruman, Gandalf was actually trying to turn Frodo into an orc, elves were actually going to the middle earth not escaping it, and the big bad wasn't Sauron but some new character invented by Jackson that makes no sense but sounds vaguely Icelandish because we want to keep the Nordic theme. Oh and half the party gets killed in Rivendale by the new villain mindfucking Frodo.

And magic stops being unexplained and mythical. You just gather shiny rocks and you can cast spells.

This is roughly equivalent to what has been changed in season 2. Characters and motivations are unrecognizable, the world is a mess.

Season 3 is widely boycotted by fans.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#87

Post by danq_ »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #12
jaggederest wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if there's one game worth your time, PS:T is probably it. Arguably one of the best cRPGs of all time.

People have rose tinted glasses when they talk about old games. PS:T was a cut above the other cRPGs of its time mainly because it had adequate writing and an engaging story when most other cRPGs were trite. Still everything after Raven’s maze is just average until the ending where it gets good again and the gameplay outside of dialogue is frankly uninteresting. It’s in a lot of way like the original Dark Soul whose…

>PS:T has now been bested by plenty of modern cRPGs. I’m not sure it’s worth revisiting considering how long it is.

I disagree. The story of PS:T is still superior in terms of depth, writing, plot and setting.

The entire package is better than most fantasy or sci-fi novels.

modern CRGPS are better in presentation and gameplay. But setting and story is what sets Torment apart. It still hasn't been bested.

I'm not looking at this through rose colored glasses either. Like there are games I loved back then that I will willingly admit are pretty bad nowadays. Zelda OOT, for example. That game was revolutionary but it doesn't hold it up, it's crap nowadays.

Planescape torment is not like that. There is literally nothing else like it in the gaming world even today.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#88

Post by chpatrick »

User23 wrote: post #53
watashiato wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who haven't played the game, it should be noted that the game is nothing like what the pitch implies. PS:T is a well written and introspective RPG and in this capacity it is rivaled by only a handful of contenders.

Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of. The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS. I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.

Disco Elysium is probably the best game I've ever played but I couldn't get into Planescape Torment.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#89

Post by checkyoursudo »

okasaki wrote: post #84
checkyoursudo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as not a little weird that the word for a hot, sexy member of either sex is the same as a word for a very, very small child. Like, "Why, hello there, infant." dogwhistle

[flagged]

No? Why would I be?

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#90

Post by waveBidder »

chpatrick wrote: post #88
User23 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of. The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS. I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.

Disco Elysium is probably the best game I've ever played but I couldn't get into Planescape Torment.

I would love a modern recreation of planescape torment. the story seems excellent but I bounced off the actual experience of the game
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