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People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

psychologicalscience.org

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Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#81

Post by emodendroket »

canjobear wrote: post #45
emodendroket wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is just the latest of many studies suggesting memory is extremely malleable and suggestible.

If the studies are based on asking people if they remember the false event, they are susceptible to the same critique.

Some do; others involve more subtle tricks like having subjects watch a video of a car crash, then using different wording a week later to ask them about details of the video (to spoil the surprise, the wording of the questions significantly alters recollection of what happened in the video).

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#82

Post by canjobear »

Timon3 wrote: post #63
canjobear wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this whole experimental paradigm is inherently unfixable.

So we just stop studying psychology completely?

No, but the focus for studies like this should be on nonvoluntary responses like reaction times and EEG in my opinion.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#83

Post by cdogl »

Timon3 wrote: post #63
canjobear wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this whole experimental paradigm is inherently unfixable.

So we just stop studying psychology completely?

Or the people undertaking these studies (and more importantly, the people peer reviewing and publishing the work) push back on broad conclusions that aren't substantiated by the research.

Having seen the nonsense my partner has to put up with in order to get a post-graduate qualification to practice as a professional psychologist I'm not holding my breath. From where I'm sitting the replication crisis in this field looks like a crisis of incompetence and apathy.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#84

Post by antisthenes »

jbavari wrote: post #75

Interesting that the entire article had nothing to mention about the Reid technique [1]. The Reid technique has been used by law enforcement to convince criminals of confessions. Many confessions were found to be false. In the book by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson [2], they cover false confessions in depth with a few court cases, as well as police techniques to invoke cognitive dissonance in the accused. Callout to…

I took a cursory look through the Reid technique.

It's literally just modern gaslighting.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#85

Post by [deleted] »

Timon3 wrote: post #62
somenameforme wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you could discard any study under that rationale among others. And the interesting thing is you'd likely be far more 'informed' for doing so. Social psychology has the lowest replication rate of any field. You're looking at top journals with replication rates in the twenties. [1] What this means is that if you were to take any give study in social psychology, and simply assume it was 'wrong' (either saying the o…

I don't want to discount the replication crisis, but I'd like to ask you the same question again: how, specifically, do you design any psychological study that you can't discard with "well, they could be faking it"?

[deleted]

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#86

Post by swayvil »

antisthenes wrote: post #84
jbavari wrote: post #75

Interesting that the entire article had nothing to mention about the Reid technique [1]. The Reid technique has been used by law enforcement to convince criminals of confessions. Many confessions were found to be false. In the book by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson [2], they cover false confessions in depth with a few court cases, as well as police techniques to invoke cognitive dissonance in the accused. Callout to…

I took a cursory look through the Reid technique. It's literally just modern gaslighting.

Well, it's a highly developed and systematized form of gaslighting. A significant technological advancement over the common amateur gaslighting.

Like the machinegun isn't just another musket.

Consider the progress of technology in the field of lying, bullshit and propaganda.

We've been developing that stuff for literally thousands of years. It has surely been refined to such a height as to be nigh-perfectly secret, invisible and powerful.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#87

Post by zealtrace »

This study was immediately critiqued for distorted results due to the way the researchers interpreted the data.

"We used three different approaches to recode their data. Using Shaw and Porter's approach, we replicated their 70%. Using alternative approaches that distinguish between false beliefs and memories, we found 26-30% of subjects met the criteria for false memories. Moreover, we showed that laypeople’s understanding of remembering better aligns with the alternative coding approaches than with Shaw and Porter’s."

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/87062/

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#88

Post by evandale »

localplume wrote: post #25
madaxe_again wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is not necessary to make your population believe the Big Lie - in fact, by applying a consistent false narrative to an entire group, you get reinforcement effects by more impressionable members of the group towards those with a greater resistance. This has been used, repeatedly, through history. Now, where AI could be applied would be in having a tailored, sculpted false narrative for each and every subject, which…

You touched on a disturbing point. People like to imagine that some govt will wield to indoctrinate the populace, but it is more likely this kind of tool would be used for marketing or advertisement. look at how many people gladly work for FANG/whatever companies and develop tools just to supercharge advertisement but see no moral issues with it. as long as they're making money, and a lot of money, who cares right? I…

> You touched on a disturbing point. People like to imagine that some govt will wield to indoctrinate the populace, but it is more likely this kind of tool would be used for marketing or advertisement.

Many people imagine companies indoctrinating the population but we are brushed off with "the first amendment only applies to the government" and nonsense about how companies and platforms don't have to uphold free speech because they're not the government, they don't owe you anything, and if you don't like it find another company to do business with.

It's definitely disturbing how people will give corporations leeway to inflict harm upon society because they're not the government.

My point with this comment is that companies already use censorship to create a false narrative of the public opinion so it shouldn't surprise us that they'll use AI on top of that to achieve the same goals. They won't even have to censor people if they can create an infinite on-demand stream of content that supports the narrative they want to push.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#89

Post by moffkalast »

ekianjo wrote: post #23

> Evidence from some wrongful-conviction cases suggests that suspects can be questioned in ways that lead them to falsely believe in and confess to committing crimes they didn’t actually commit. It's been known for like dozens of years at least. What happened in soviet Russia and in China during the cultural revolution was all about making people convinced that they had committed crimes and that they deserved their p…

Or you know, it being the standard work process for police these days apparently, so they can pat themselves on the back and go home early: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obCNQ0xksZ4

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#90

Post by splendor_spoon »

emodendroket wrote: post #80
splendor_spoon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this peppering of whataboutism add to the conversation?

I think trying to do apply this finding to an ongoing injustice is more urgent than cataloguing the failings of a defunct state.

You are welcome to add those points to the discussion but right now all we have a statement of, ‘but… but… they do it too!’.

I appreciate the downvote though.

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