European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries • Hacker News Board

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#541

Post by Jochim » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 1:39 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #8

On the one hand, maybe a reduction in e-waste. Then again - do you trust your average person to recycle batteries responsibly? At least the phones have some residual trade-in value so people are incentivized to turn them in somewhere . However, the other challenge is people like buying sketchy cheap batteries off the internet, as we have seen from the recent spree of e-bike fires in NYC apartments so...

> However, the other challenge is people like buying sketchy cheap batteries off the internet, as we have seen from the recent spree of e-bike fires in NYC apartments so...

Sounds like something that should be regulated next.

People replacing their own batteries provides an extra incentive to do so.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#542

Post by MagicMoonlight » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 1:55 PM UTC

vineyardmike wrote: post #96

jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. These ultra thin foldable phones probably couldn’t exist with removable batteries. The thinness required to make it comfortable to use would be hard and so would the structural integrity with a removable backplate. It would absolutely restrict durability since it’d make waterproof and dustproofing way more cha…

Wireless charging is stupid and inefficient. If someone tried to sell you a petrol pump which works by spraying a jet of petrol into your car from 5m away would you get it?

“Your customers won’t even have to plug anything into their car. FuelSafe just safely hoses down the car with fuel! Over 45% efficient!”

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#543

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

Jochim wrote: post #540

scarface_74 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re at least the third person to say this without the disclaimer - only if the rubber flap was securely covering the ports when it was dropped in water.

You repeat this everywhere. The port requiring a flap has no bearing on the waterproofing of the battery which used an entirely separately gasket on the back cover. You can clearly see here[0] that the gasket on the flap protects only the USB port from water ingress. The battery and sim are protected by the grey gasket on the rear cover. The opening for the rear speakers in the back cover reinforces the fact that the…

And you had to make really sure that the battery was completely secured when you replaced it. There was even a warning on the screen.

https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d...

> If you remove the battery, the Galaxy S5 will remind you to make sure the back cover is back in place securely. reply

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#544

Post by oblio » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

thrashh wrote: post #488

oblio wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully people here are asking for good regulation, once which states that at some point in the future every phone ever sold in market X needs to have its core software open sourced, so companies can plan ahead.

Who is asking for bad regulation?

I don't know, you brought up the strawman.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#545

Post by roenxi » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:07 PM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #507

roenxi wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third, where do you get the idea from that Apple makes the best design decisions for consumers? https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/most-popular-phone-brands If someone decides to buy the phone that is best for them, most likely designer of that phone is going to be Apple. If you like maybe there is an argument it is Samsung or a Chinese company - but fact is that Europe, as far as real-world results, doesn't have a…

Ridiculous take. Companies optimize for profit, that’s it. Capitalism only optimizes for that. Regulations are the means we can mandate some other values taking any kind of priority. Otherwise we would still have coke putting cocaine into our drinks.

Optimising for profit happens to be more effective than what the EU does. Apple can convince bystanders to spend days working hard to trade for a phone. They do that entirely with good design, strong QAQC and persuasive advertising.

The EU gets convinces people to do things with fines and, ultimately, threats of jail time.

Now if one design people want to own and the other design only takes hold because of threats and fines, we ought conclude that the mandatory design is the weaker one. People aren't paying for replaceable batteries. They're paying for tough, cleanly built & waterproof phones. That is why there are sometimes actual queues outside Apple stored as people try to buy iPhones - people really think Apple designs great phones. For the EU to manage that they'd need a man with a truncheon standing off to the side forcing people to line up when they don't want to.

And they're doing this while Europe is being hit by crisis after crisis. This is a terrible time to be trying to reduce the quality of phones in the EU. It is bad enough in a good year. It is a terrible time to be drawing attention away from the actual problems that Europeans are facing. They should be working on making things cheaper and better for EU citizens.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#546

Post by rchaud » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:08 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #90

jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> "I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar…

"Connector innovation" is a solved problem. We really only needed symmetric connectors so we didn't have to insert a cable twice each time.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#547

Post by rchaud » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

aembleton wrote: post #346

tpmoney wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it is enough that many are unwilling to spend that kind of money on a 5 year old phone, versus for $35, it's a low enough amount that many might just stick with their phone and replace the battery, leading to less e-waste. Are there people that find spending $99 on a battery replacement expensive that are really making the decision to replace their whole phone for 5-10x that amount?

No, but they might just spend 2x that amount on a new Android phone.

I imagine that a good chunk of people that can't stand Android are those that did what you're saying: they used a $200 Android phone to replace their flagship iPhone.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#548

Post by rchaud » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:18 PM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #312

smn1234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the…

I feel like those rarer circumstances can be handled pretty easily with a portable battery bank, and also pull double duty for any other USB devices you might have. With my 14 Pro Max I charge my phone every 2-3 days, and I'm not letting it get down to Personally, at least, I'll take the sleeker design vs. an easily swap-able battery. Thankfully, it sounds like the EU law doesn't actually require it be replaceable in…

If you held a 2014 Galaxy Note 4 in one hand, and a modern iPhone in the other, I think you'd notice that the sleekness factor is not that different.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#549

Post by rchaud » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:25 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #107

smn1234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the…

What's the difference between carrying an extra replaceable battery with you, vs carrying an external battery you can use to charge the phone?

External power banks charge via USB. Most people don't want to walk around with their phone tethered via 4ft USB cable to a power bank in their backpack.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#550

Post by berniedurfee » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I agree that opening up the software side of devices is important, but this is still a huge win.

I and many, many other people don’t mind using a phone or tablet for many years, even with an obsolete OS. But battery life tends to be the #1 factor in this devices ending up in the bin.

In fact, by making battery changes easier with less intensive surgery, it’ll put even more pressure on manufacturers to allow for repurposing them with a different OS.

Maybe mandate a 5-year limit before a device must be allowed to be unlocked allowing alternative software to be installed, thus giving these disposable devices a far longer lifespan.