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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#521

Post by jychang »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #509
pwg wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…

The easy option would be to have a default law like "you open source your code 5 years after it was created for phones/tablets/cars/etc and it automatically applies to your suppliers as well and the necessary software tooling to get it working. If this requires hardware to program the devices, provide the blueprints of the devices as well". Then it would be understood and agreed that anyone making software they have…

Never going to happen, unless you think western governments would like guaranteeing that Chinese tech will never be more than 5 years out of date.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#522

Post by r00fus »

Dalewyn wrote: post #469
lolinder wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use I hang onto my phones until the software becomes unusable, either because apps drop support for my OS (and I can't update any more) or I get scared into upgrading for security. I've never had a battery fail or even get to the point where it doesn't last a whole day—the software fails first. My understanding is that it's different with…

My experience is that it's neither the battery nor the software that fails: It's the phone modem. Every single one of my Android phones stopped working as phones 3 to 5 years down the line. Couldn't take calls, the phone never became aware of them. Couldn't call anyone, not even emergency services, the phone never connected despite full bars. It's always the fucking phone modem. I'm still using an Android, but when t…

That’s quite amazing because I have phones from 10 years ago that function fully (only one is an Android - Nexus 5).

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#523

Post by forty »

kaba0 wrote: post #508
forty wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is a priority for you, you could vote with your wallet and purchase a fairphone next time your current phone dies. They provide fairly long software support and always had replaceable batteries.

That doesn’t work at all, and is just some capitalist dream.

It'd totally work if people gave a shit (but they don't, and prefer purchasing new shiny Samsung every other year anyway so it doesn't work indeed)

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#524

Post by dns_snek »

Nemo_bis wrote: post #452
earthboundkid wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve made a similar suggestion on HN before. Have a minimum support period for internet connected devices, and once you stop updating after that minimum, you’re required to unlock the hardware and open source everything.

That can't work, because the suppliers will be bankrupt already. However one could something like Portico, which keeps journals in archive and releases them to the public if the original goes down. Manufacturers could be forced to deposit all the source code for the software they release on their product, and the deposited source code be released to the public after X years if there is no support for security updates…

That would be great in theory, but who would actually review and enforce that?

Without really strict rules in place this would be doomed to fail. You would need to have a huge number of people whose job it would be to review every single software/firmware submission.

Would you mandate that companies must deliver code and build scripts that can be built with a single command and produce usable software/firmware?

Otherwise companies would probably submit random archives of plausible looking code that will never be usable because it depends on 100+ proprietary components.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#526

Post by pjmlp »

scarface_74 wrote: post #442
pjmlp wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I keep mentioning, Nokia has been building hardened phones for construction workers, with replacement batteries, for ages, all the way back to their feature phones.

Yes, I am sure people want to carry around ruggedized phones like it’s 2005. I programmed them working in field services.

That doesn't invalidate their existence.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#527

Post by pjmlp »

crabbone wrote: post #395
pjmlp wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the feature phone days there were zero updates. If one was lucky, maybe with developer tools there was a firmware update, and even those happened at most once.

This is apples to oranges. Feature phones weren't a substitute for personal computers. They weren't as necessary of an accessory as it is today. On the other hand, standards governing how those phones worked weren't changing as fast, so, given good care, you could use your phone for 10+ years. Updates today are a way to force users into buying a new phone (eg. my banking up decided not to support an older version of…

> Feature phones weren't a substitute for personal computers. They weren't as necessary of an accessory as it is today. On the other hand, standards governing how those phones worked weren't changing as fast, so, given good care, you could use your phone for 10+ years.

I am quite sure that many people across the African continent and Asian see it differently.

Specially those that were using Symbian devices.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#528

Post by 6510 »

skissane wrote: post #314
pwg wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…

> To make this work would require some form of required escrow in order to gain copyright protection in the first place where the code would be held until such time as the removal of copyright protection from it triggered, and then it could be released. Trying to mandate that for all software might be too ambitious to politically succeed in practice - but mandating source code escrow for software used in certain regu…

Throw in a code review.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#529

Post by scarface_74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #526
scarface_74 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am sure people want to carry around ruggedized phones like it’s 2005. I programmed them working in field services.

That doesn't invalidate their existence.

Did you actually use one of those ruggedized phones that were used by field service workers?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#530

Post by scarface_74 »

evilos wrote: post #496
scarface_74 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which modern phone has a removable battery and is water resistant? The vaunted Samsung s5, you still had to make sure that the battery was very secure and just right. > https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d... > If you remove the battery, the Galaxy S5 will remind you to make sure the back cover is back in place securely.

Apparently the brand new iphone 14! https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown The new law apparently doesn't require a user to be able to replace the battery by hand. Just that it is serviceable.

The iPhone has always been serviceable by an authorized Apple dealer or if you’re good enough and brave enough by the end user wiling to use the iFixit guide.
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