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Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#41

Post by ralfd »

My go to example to explain the One True Mac Way of Window management is the “The many windows of John Siracusa” podcast from ATP a few years ago.

The relevant discussion starts at 1:33:00

https://atp.fm/episodes/96

Siracusa, who grew up as a (classic) Mac user, explains his tiling and overlapping habits to Arment and Liss, who grew up as Microsoft Windows users and later switched, and they gasp in utter horror, shock and awe.

For example Siracusa explains that he currently has a dozen terminal windows open, and also 19 overlapping Safari windows, normal for him, in BBEdit he regularly hits 20-40; they ask him if he doesn’t know about tabs and he replies “Oh, I love tabs! Of course every Window has many tabs!”. How would he manage/organize hundreds of tabs in multiple applications with a snapping tiling manager? He can’t. It is fun from there. Like, he jokes after a work week his desktop has “sedimentary layers”.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#44

Post by crazylogger »

I think with macOS’s design of the dock (resizable, unlike on Windows where the task bar always takes up the whole monitor width,) having one or more windows “full screen” on your desktop feels wrong. There is always some some space left unoccupied to the side of the dock.

Apple has a solution for this which is the green dot that puts your app in a separate space to be truly full screen, and you can split screen between two apps. I guess that’s what Apple would like you to do instead of snapping.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#46

Post by arrrg »

g_p wrote: post #25

I think this comes down to Apple's envisaged window management paradigm being centered around full-screen windows. In Apple's UX view, it seems like you're meant to maximize windows to "spaces", and switch between workspaces using a few gestures (4 finger swipes mainly) to reveal all windows, and swap between workspaces that way. Rectangle, as others have pointed out, give you the "snap" experience you would expect f…

This is such a weird ahistorical view.

Overlapping and freely resizable windows is the Mac paradigm. In my estimation they don’t add snapping mostly due to pride.

Maximized windows is an intruder. Something that was big on Windows but never really a thing (and just not possible at all) on the Mac at all until a couple of years ago. The implementation of fullscreen mode is clunky and slow.

Given that Apple has been throwing different window management paradigms at the Mac (Exposé later retitled Mission Control which was the original new OS X approach, Spaces in different implementations, sticky windows resizing, Stage Manager, full screen mode, full screen mode with split view) it is truly weird that this grab bag does not include snapping windows. And, I still think that is just down to hurt pride and ego.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#47

Post by Someone »

Possibly patents. As an example that may or may not be relevant, Google surfaced https://patents.google.com/patent/US10592080B2/en for me. It’s from “Microsoft Technology Licensing LLC” and says

“This document describes techniques and apparatuses enabling assisted presentation of application windows in a multi-application environment. The multi-application environment described herein presents one or more application windows, which can be sized, positioned, or layered to provide an optimized layout. In some embodiments, these techniques and apparatuses enable a size or position of an application window to be determined based on an edge of another application window.”

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#48

Post by glimshe »

Like everything Apple, it has an opinion. You either like the opinion or you don't... I feel that MacOS's UI paradigm revolves around extra large monitors and showing your screen as a sort of desk. A lot of wasted/empty space where you arrange things freely, as opposed to Windows/Linux which emphasize efficiency in using the screen real estate.

I use MacOS daily at work but I would LOVE if I could use Windows instead, that's what I have on my personal machine. It looks like the OP simply wants to use Microsoft and can't admit it to themselves!

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#49

Post by RyanHamilton »

samwillis wrote: post #29

Not quite answering your question directly, but I think it's important for platform owners to leave gaps for the developer ecosystem. This may be one that they have purposely left to the app market. If Apple and Microsoft provided a solution to every UX variant people want, there wouldn't be a market for apps built on top of the platform for UX tools. The further they encroach on the various markets the more develope…

There's no way I believe this is the real reason. The whole history of MS/apple/facebook and successful businesses in general is allowing others to experiment to create add-ons / apps then creating your own integrated version to capture the value. i.e. let them pay the cost of experiementation and then copy it. See MS office, MS internet explorer, MS games, MS teams, Apple sherlock/watson, Facebook UI,......

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#50

Post by rcarmo »

OJFord wrote: post #39
g_p wrote: post #25

I think this comes down to Apple's envisaged window management paradigm being centered around full-screen windows. In Apple's UX view, it seems like you're meant to maximize windows to "spaces", and switch between workspaces using a few gestures (4 finger swipes mainly) to reveal all windows, and swap between workspaces that way. Rectangle, as others have pointed out, give you the "snap" experience you would expect f…

Why then the two 'full-ish screen' systems? There's 'spaces' as you say, and also the traffic light button that makes it 'maximised' I suppose. I just don't see why if you'd thought it out, and that's (either of them) the you wanted people to do it, why you'd have both options. And then there's the weird 'close actually closes the window, not the app' (even though for some large percentage of apps the one window is a…

Those are intended as shortcuts for creative apps where you typically need the entire screen real estate. There was precedent for that going back to pre-X macOS, but spaces and full screen windows are a consistent approach at switching contexts in creative apps.
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