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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#511
post #24

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Battery in my last device became too weak long before device was useless. Device was perfectly fine, just that battery did not hold long anymore.

There are several things that limit the lifetime of a phone:

  1. Battery
  2. Software
  3. Charge port/headphone port
  4. eMMC storage runs out of writes
  5. Accidental damage
  6. Screen scratches
  7. Wanting more RAM/storage and faster processing
Batteries are getting better, and we can extend the life of a LiIon battery by about 5X by limiting charging to 80%. If batteries inherently had as short a life as they commonly do in phones, then electric cars would be doomed, but there's no real reason why we can't get phone batteries to last 10 years or more.

The software can only be solved by constant effort. There are certain things that could possibly be done to make it easier, such as arranging the device-specific stuff so that the effort already spent on producing a newer set of software for a newer device can be more easily back-ported to the older devices. I think this will only be solved by legislation, such as a law saying that the software must be updated for X years, or even just a law saying that the support duration must be very clearly advertised with the phone allowing consumers to make a choice.

A USB-C port is rated for a minimum of 10,000 plug/unplug cycles, which should be enough to charge the phone once a day for 30 years. If that isn't actually being achieved then we need to ask why not.

The eMMC storage is a problem with many phones. My phone is just starting to slow to a crawl because its main storage is old and it takes a while for it to perform certain writes (or something - it's hard to get an accurate picture of what is happening in there). There is zero information that a consumer has available when deciding which phone to buy to tell them which ones will have a problem with this. This seems to be a fairly obvious target for a law, similar to the software support duration.

Accidental damage - I remember reading a statistic about how the average phone survives a ridiculously short time before being dropped and broken, and I don't get it. I haven't dropped/broken a phone ever. I guess we just let the people who are constantly dropping their phones pick up the tab on that one.

Screen scratch protection is also getting really good now. My current phone has lived in my pocket for several years, and there's almost zero scratching on the screen. Just don't keep your keys in the same pocket.

In terms of replacing a phone because you want something better - I had a look recently to see about replacing my phone. The ones on the market at a comparable price to what I spent on my current one had specifications that were really not much better at all. It doesn't make sense - if a phone with those specifications is deemed suitable for today's market, then my old one with almost identical specifications should be fine too.

So, I don't really see any barriers that aren't insurmountable to a phone lasting several times longer than they do at the moment. Ten years should be easy, 15 years should be possible. At the moment, it's more like 3 if you're very lucky.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in my experience, it's the charge port that goes. My last two devices, each of which I had for 3 years, the charge port failed before the battery did. I just finished fixing my current one. Although I did decide to do a battery replacement anyways while I had the device open. But that was just because of how hard it is to open them at all. My battery health monitoring app said it was at ~80% health still. And while t…

> in my experience, it's the charge port that goes. I have had this problem on a regular basis with all of the iPhones I have owned, and the problem has never been that the charge port is dead, but that dust and/or lint has gathered in it. The solution is very simple: use a tootbrush or similar, preferably something plastic that won't break, BUT NOT ANYTHING METALLIC, to dig out the dirty stuff. Problem solved.

A wooden toothpick works very well.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#513

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

My wife is possibly about to be forced to throw away a $8k pair of hearing aids because after 6 years they are no longer supported by the manufacturer's software for hearing care professionals so it's likely she won't be able to get them readjusted.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

Parent commenter, and sure it was opinion, but based in good reasoning. USB-C wasn't the problem, MFi was. The rumours are that Apple's USB-C implementation will be locked down in similar ways, accessory manufacturers will still need to pay Apple to create certified accessories, and data transfer speeds are going to be restricted to Lightning speeds. USB-C everything is nice, but no non-techies I know like it because…

> ... if [removable batteries] were that great for customers there would have been [more mass market smartphones]...

Removable battery phones are more difficult to design.

Why would a company do something that's more difficult, absent a mandate to do so?

Modern smartphones are not the pinnacle of technical possibility -- they're an optimization between feature and price.

A feature could be beloved by customers but add another $1 to smartphone build costs, and still be cut by every remaining manufacturer in the market.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#515

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I find it ironic that one of the few phone brands adressing all these issues (replaceable batteries, rootability, 5+ years spare parts sales) happens to be the ultimate "Chinese brand" phone: Unihertz :p

No woke bs marketing, no coorporate white washing, no marketing with "green sustainability": they just do it instead of talking about it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really get the feeling you didn't think it through at all.... I said the structure can be discussed. There is no problem giving first number of years free to see if the IP is commercially viable. The aggressive progression (doubling every year) means that literally all IP is in public domain after a couple of decades.

You saying "it can be discussed" doesn't change that your model is flawed on its face, with no amount of extra layers of ad hoc workarounds able to overcome those blatant flaws.... A simpler solution is to start with a return to something resembling the original IP laws where one lost their rights within their own lifetime.... Theres a reason that was originally proposed, rather than lifetime protections, and why cre…

Private citizens get different rules than corporations might fit into a discussion. Let an author hold their personal IP. Corporate IP taxed. Might be odd for legal exposure as there wouldn't be a corporate vail.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#517
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would _this_ regulation raise the cost of entry? At worst they'd just have to release the source code for the firmware they wrote (putting source code on github takes maybe 5m).

Source code probably involves libraries from other companies and covers patents owned by other people. No one is building a product from complete scratch.

Those suppliers would be subject to the same regulations when supplying to the big players. They should have all that stuff already available once it's in force.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#518

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

USB-C wasn't a problem because that legislation was being talked about for a long time, and everybody "got in line" except Apple

But it was the reason why we moved from the crapfest of earlier 2000's "everybody has a different charger"

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#519

Stop micromanaging everything what the hell

Good at making laws. Not good at making tech.

Do you know which continent invented and the sole seller of the most precise litography machines? How about lenses? How about the best electrical infrastructure products with even IoT?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#520

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I find it ironic that one of the few phone brands adressing all these issues (replaceable batteries, rootability, 5+ years spare parts sales) happens to be the ultimate "Chinese brand" phone: Unihertz :p No woke bs marketing, no coorporate white washing, no marketing with "green sustainability": they just do it instead of talking about it.

And the result is that nobody knows about it.

Doesn’t need to be hyperbolic bs marketing just to advertise that your phone has these features.

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