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Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

chrismaury.com

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Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#81

Post by philwelch »

glhaynes wrote: post #64
philwelch wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stores will just pass on the costs to the consumers. Which just eats up the increase in minimum wage.

To some extent, yes - but to what extent? Surely not entirely. Does anybody have numbers on this sort of thing? Because if we just assume the cost is passed on to {all consumers}, much of it would be eaten up by non-minimum wage-earners, the majority of the workforce (and thus the majority of consumers). And much of those costs may also be passed on to products that aren't generally bought by minimum-wage earners, to…

But raising the minimum wage would affect the entire wage structure the whole way up, and $20/hr is enough to eat up lots of more-than-minimum-wage jobs as well.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#82

Post by fredsters_s »

URSpider94 wrote: post #54

I've been sitting here for 10 minutes or so trying to find the right way to critique not just the article, but also the tone of the discussions here. I think the best thing that I can say is that this experiment flies in the face of everything that pg, Steve Blank and the other leaders of Lean Startup methodology are teaching. If the customer here is a member of the "urban poor" (or what some commenters have decided…

> I think the best thing that I can say is that this experiment flies in the face of everything that pg, Steve Blank and the other leaders of Lean Startup methodology are teaching

The OP is advocating the installation of a terminal to see if the 'urban poor' use it. That sounds pretty lean to me.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#83

Post by cornell532 »

whateverer wrote: post #80
cornell532 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they do now? You make it sound like there's a better alternative currently available! The reason they would consider selling a FUTURE interest in their organs is because it would be the best option on the table. Since it's not currently available as an option, they must be choosing considerably worse option now (which is the best currently available option). How is your alternative more just, more fair, bette…

Well, without regulation it won't necessarily be the _FUTURE_ interest in selling an organ. As I said, desperation can make a person do crazy things, and there's more to consent whether there's a contract involved and no guns pointed to anyone's head. And while it creates an incentive to donate organs, it also allows wealthier people to hoard them. Remember that the circumstances which allow the organs of a person to…

I agree with everything you're saying (except the part about hording) perhaps....

My expectation is that donors would be paid based on expected value, which is how (I believe), the issue is being framed in debates.

ie assume there's a 1% probability that potential donor will be a.) young enough b.) die under right circumstances.

Then we should offer that potential donor 1% of the expected value of his/her organs (ie if organs are worth $100k then we should offer $1k).

Obviously these are all made up numbers. But the idea of paying up front based on expected value makes sense to me in theory.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#84

Post by cornell532 »

whateverer wrote: post #80
cornell532 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they do now? You make it sound like there's a better alternative currently available! The reason they would consider selling a FUTURE interest in their organs is because it would be the best option on the table. Since it's not currently available as an option, they must be choosing considerably worse option now (which is the best currently available option). How is your alternative more just, more fair, bette…

Well, without regulation it won't necessarily be the _FUTURE_ interest in selling an organ. As I said, desperation can make a person do crazy things, and there's more to consent whether there's a contract involved and no guns pointed to anyone's head. And while it creates an incentive to donate organs, it also allows wealthier people to hoard them. Remember that the circumstances which allow the organs of a person to…

By the way, as a separate issue; if people were allowed to bid for organs. And assuming you're right that rich people horded them, then wouldn't the supply rise up to meet that new demand? Wouldn't more people sign up to be organ donors? Wouldn't we reach equilibrium where the supply side matched the demand side? If poor people were getting fabulously wealth from committing to donate organs, and more lives were saved, wouldn't we eventually reach equilibrium? The 1% only need so many organs.... Poor people with money in their pockets and less organ shortage wouldn't be a horrible scenario. Maybe it would force the real hard work of cloning organs and improving a unsatisfactory system.

I must say, if it became an outright bidding system some people who society might say are less deserving than someone else might benefit. But that happens already! Look at Mickey Mantle who received a liver after a lifetime of alcoholism (and died soon thereafter). Or Steve Jobs who shopped around for the best region to receive a new organ (he's not FROM Tennessee after all...).

So please tell me, how would a MORE market based system be significantly worse? It seems like we have the worst of everything right now in our pursuit of the idealistic fantasy that the system treats everyone equally and that organ donation should be a purely altruistic gesture.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#85

Post by blahedo »

gojomo wrote: post #68
shingen wrote: post #4

What this article is effectively advocating, but can't or won't say outright, is that America needs the ability to pay people less than the minimum wage. Someone working all day at mechanical turk, is likely to fall below the federal minimum wage rate in terms of what they're pulling down per hour. Is it ok for companies to utilize mass scale labor at what becomes in reality a sub minimum wage rate? Particularly if m…

Minimum wage laws destroy jobs and reduce overall welfare; they should be repealed rather than extended to novel business arrangements. Minimum wages are implemented with noble motivations, but are based on a broken mental model, where the edict alone can lift everyone who would have made less up to the new statutory minimum. In fact, many of the people who would be employed at lower wages aren't (yet) productive eno…

> Minimum wage laws destroy jobs and reduce overall welfare

Cite, please.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#86

Post by orangecat »

pron wrote: post #46

OMG! You guys! Aside from a few, most comments here are discussing how to actually do this efficiently. I think this might be forgivable as I assume many of you are quite young, but are you really suggesting exploiting poor populations for menial work w/o social benefits, without dignity, suggesting they walk into some booth, put in a few hours of work without even the physical presence of co-workers and bosses that…

are you really suggesting exploiting poor populations for menial work w/o social benefits, without dignity, suggesting they walk into some booth, put in a few hours of work without even the physical presence of co-workers and bosses that can appreciate their work?

I'll go with "yes". Doing productive work, earning money, and gaining basic computer experience would be much better for everyone involved than panhandling on the street.

In equally loaded terms, why would you deny poor people an opportunity to improve their lives?

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#87

Post by gregholmberg »

gojomo wrote: post #68
shingen wrote: post #4

What this article is effectively advocating, but can't or won't say outright, is that America needs the ability to pay people less than the minimum wage. Someone working all day at mechanical turk, is likely to fall below the federal minimum wage rate in terms of what they're pulling down per hour. Is it ok for companies to utilize mass scale labor at what becomes in reality a sub minimum wage rate? Particularly if m…

Minimum wage laws destroy jobs and reduce overall welfare; they should be repealed rather than extended to novel business arrangements. Minimum wages are implemented with noble motivations, but are based on a broken mental model, where the edict alone can lift everyone who would have made less up to the new statutory minimum. In fact, many of the people who would be employed at lower wages aren't (yet) productive eno…

Minimum wage laws destroy jobs and reduce overall welfare; they should be repealed rather than extended to novel business arrangements.

This is in fact their purpose. Minimum wage laws destroy low-paying jobs by making them illegal, preventing the least competitive members of our society from having the hours and days of their lives "mined" by an employer for negligible compensation.

That having these laws "reduces welfare" is, I believe, a conclusion not supported by fact.

A living example can be found in urban Brazil. By failing to outlaw and enforce certain minima (building codes, wages), large Brazilian cities have created vast marginal neighborhoods that no one wants to live in.

Based just on the example of favelas alone, I would argue that having laws to guarantee minimum wages is one thing a government can do immediately to protect the weaker members of a society.

I think you have not addressed another important duty of governments: to provide a reasonably rigorous educational launchpad so that the less fortunate need not always remain so.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#88

Post by orangecat »

ajays wrote: post #44
yummyfajitas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they'll just close up shop? Of course not. Some stores on the margin will be driven bankrupt by the increased costs, and these stores will close up shop.

But every store in that business would see their labor costs rise proportionately, so the net effect would be zero. If Walgreens' costs go up by 5%, so will Rite Aid's, CVS's, etc. Stores will just pass on the costs to the consumers. Plus, the labor cost of stores like Walgreens are very small compared to the merchandise costs. And the high-paying jobs (Pharmacists, etc.) would not be affected anyways, since you're j…

Stores will just pass on the costs to the consumers.

Which just shows that the minimum wage is a convoluted and inefficient form of welfare. If you want to help poor people, give them money. The end.

Re: Mechanical Turk Stations for the Urban Poor

#89

Post by Dove »

hugh4life wrote: post #8

"found that you can make about $7/ hour." As someone who turks occasionally, you can't consistently make $7 an hour unless you have some skill that you could probably use on the job marketplace. $3-$4 is more like it.

I can confirm that. The article he cites to support the claim (from 2009) indicates the author made $4 off a 350-500 word article, and $3 for a product review. Based on my experience, those went for about $1.50 and $0.50 as of about a year ago.

$3/hr on Turk is pretty good, and you need some education and diligence to do it.

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