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Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

jdawiseman.com

161–170 of 316 posts

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#161
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that is not exactly "productive", isn't it? After all, risk was not eliminated, only redistributed. Productive output, e.g., would be something that reduces the chance of your house catching fire.

Sure, but without insurance, everyone would have to have enough cash available to build a second home in case the first burns down (ie, provision for the worst case loss). With insurance, just need to have extra cash corresponding to the expected loss (ie, worst case loss times probability it happens) plus some cost for administering the insurance. So, effectively [1], with insurance everyone can build a house nearly…

People would just live with the risk, if their house burns down they're just homeless

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#162
post #85

This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?

I’m the author. Thank you for saying it is an excellent read — that was no small amount of work. You ask “Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games?”, which is a very fair question. The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. E.g., you are not the optimal person to hold the risk that, through no fault of your…

> A Lincolnshire farmer — and yes, I like the non-abstract solidly of the example — is not the optimal holder of the ‘risk’ that the Australian and Kansas wheat harvests are super-bountiful. Markets allow that risk to be transferred to a non-farmer better able to hold the risk.

Are you familiar with the arguments of (more popularly) Aaron Brown and (transitively) Jeffrey Williams?

Essentially, the idea that a farmer would be an active participant in a futures market is quaint, but the vast majority of activity is speculation. This is not a contradiction of your point, but an elaboration of a counter-intuitive part of it.

One might look at a futures market and see that well over 98 % of the activity is buying and selling by people who never have any reason to care about wheat other than for the possibility of its price going up or down. But this large-scale speculation is precisely the thing that makes it possible for a farmer to hedge (by providing liquidity and a motive for the counterpart of the hedge) or, as Williams' points out, perhaps more commonly "take out loans in commodities" for their convenience yield.

Essentially, the Lincolnshire farmer can lock in a price with a plain forward contract. However, that does take a double coincidence of demands (or whatever the phrase is) and the standardised nature of futures contracts help avoid that problem.

But! The most common use of futures contracts (aside from speculation) is not (or at least was not, when Williams wrote his book) hedging, but effectively borrowing and lending in commodities.

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#163
post #151
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m the author. Thank you for saying it is an excellent read — that was no small amount of work. You ask “Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games?”, which is a very fair question. The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. E.g., you are not the optimal person to hold the risk that, through no fault of your…

> The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. That is just one of the purposes; others are: - time-shifting of consumption: borrow when you study or build a house, then invest and save during work years, then live of retirement portfolio - maturity transformation enabling investment: extra cash goes in the bank (and can be redeemed…

> So, in real financial markets, all the arbitrage games etc. [2] at least support actual productive purposes.

So without all those games, what would be substantially different?

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#164
post #162
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m the author. Thank you for saying it is an excellent read — that was no small amount of work. You ask “Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games?”, which is a very fair question. The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. E.g., you are not the optimal person to hold the risk that, through no fault of your…

> A Lincolnshire farmer — and yes, I like the non-abstract solidly of the example — is not the optimal holder of the ‘risk’ that the Australian and Kansas wheat harvests are super-bountiful. Markets allow that risk to be transferred to a non-farmer better able to hold the risk. Are you familiar with the arguments of (more popularly) Aaron Brown and (transitively) Jeffrey Williams? Essentially, the idea that a farmer…

> the vast majority of activity is speculation

Where do you draw the line between (useful) arbitrage and "pure speculation"?

Much of what is commonly known as speculation is actually an important mechanism for price quality or liquidity.

Obviously there are limits, and there are ample opportunities for making a one-sided profit without regulations, but people often seem to miss the value that arbitrageurs tangibly provide to them: Being able to exchange foreign currency at very tight spreads almost 24/7; being able to buy and sell even not commonly traded stocks etc. are often a function of that.

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#165
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. That is just one of the purposes; others are: - time-shifting of consumption: borrow when you study or build a house, then invest and save during work years, then live of retirement portfolio - maturity transformation enabling investment: extra cash goes in the bank (and can be redeemed…

> So, in real financial markets, all the arbitrage games etc. [2] at least support actual productive purposes. So without all those games, what would be substantially different?

You‘d probably see much larger spreads and lower liquidity when buying and selling stocks or commodities/currencies; you’d often overpay on insurance etc.

(All assuming a properly working market without collusion, illegal usage of non-public information etc. – which is unfortunately not always the case.)

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#166
post #89

This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?

The output (generally speaking, not specific to money markets) is better prices. There are large scale examples of economies in which prices were mismanaged either due to lack of information/technology or centrally planned prices, some of which resulted in failed states (e.g. Venezuela and the Soviet Union). While providing market information signals via prices is certainly an abstract concept that most people will n…

> lack of information/technology or centrally planned prices, some of which resulted in failed states (e.g. Venezuela and the Soviet Union)

Venezuela has never had Soviet-style central planning. It's a market economy with a public sector only slightly larger than the OECD average. Their current situation is largely the result of excess social spending: first at the expense of investment and diversification away from oil prices were high, then at the expense of currency stability when oil prices crashed.

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#167
post #164
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Lincolnshire farmer — and yes, I like the non-abstract solidly of the example — is not the optimal holder of the ‘risk’ that the Australian and Kansas wheat harvests are super-bountiful. Markets allow that risk to be transferred to a non-farmer better able to hold the risk. Are you familiar with the arguments of (more popularly) Aaron Brown and (transitively) Jeffrey Williams? Essentially, the idea that a farmer…

> the vast majority of activity is speculation Where do you draw the line between (useful) arbitrage and "pure speculation"? Much of what is commonly known as speculation is actually an important mechanism for price quality or liquidity. Obviously there are limits, and there are ample opportunities for making a one-sided profit without regulations, but people often seem to miss the value that arbitrageurs tangibly pr…

I think you and I are saying the same thing! What's counter-intuitive about many well-functioning markets is that the vast majority of what happens is superfluous in one sense, but its side effects are desirable by most!

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#168
post #162
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m the author. Thank you for saying it is an excellent read — that was no small amount of work. You ask “Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games?”, which is a very fair question. The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. E.g., you are not the optimal person to hold the risk that, through no fault of your…

> A Lincolnshire farmer — and yes, I like the non-abstract solidly of the example — is not the optimal holder of the ‘risk’ that the Australian and Kansas wheat harvests are super-bountiful. Markets allow that risk to be transferred to a non-farmer better able to hold the risk. Are you familiar with the arguments of (more popularly) Aaron Brown and (transitively) Jeffrey Williams? Essentially, the idea that a farmer…

[deleted]

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#169
This looks great.

One bit of feedback is that it seems quite difficult to read on a phone with small font requiring zooming and then horizontal scrolling. Both the website and the PDFs.

Being so text heavy I imagine it should be fairly easy to add some CSS to make it more readable.

Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps

#170
post #85

This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?

I’m the author. Thank you for saying it is an excellent read — that was no small amount of work. You ask “Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games?”, which is a very fair question. The purpose of financial markets, sometimes but not always wholly achieved, is to transfer risks to those best able to hold them. E.g., you are not the optimal person to hold the risk that, through no fault of your…

The book is from 2001; are there any substantial changes in the landscape a motivated finance student should be aware of?
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