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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#291

Post by hunter2_ »

bombela wrote: post #252
eterevsky wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia says that the resistance of water is 0.2 Ω·m for sea water, 2 to 200 Ω·m for drinking water. This is very low and can drain your battery almost immediately.

Wikipedia also says that water starts conducting at 1.23V, and the common Li-Ion nominal voltage is 3.7V. 3.7V - 1.23V == 2.47V. 2.47V / 0.2Ω ~= 30W (12.5A). You will be able the find your phone on the seabed from the bubble emanating from it. Though the battery protect circuitry (which is inside the battery package) will most likely cut power before the battery is risks damages.

> protect circuitry (which is inside the battery package) will most likely cut power

I wonder if that's responsible for the experiences folks had way before waterproof phones were introduced: they would drop their phone into water, it would shut off and refuse to boot for a significant amount of time (enough to send them shopping for a replacement) and then they'd try it a week later only to find that it works fine. Accelerated by putting it in a bag with rice or other desiccant.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#292

Post by seszett »

ulfw wrote: post #247
seszett wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how come they aren't making car (EV) batteries replaceable? I don't think 500 kg batteries can ever be easily and quickly user-replaceable, no matter what the EU mandates. You should complain about the laws of physics (or the weakness of humans) rather than make this ridiculous comparison.

And yet Nio is doing it already. How "ridiculous"! https://www.nio.com/nio-power

The point of the EU directive is too have easily user-replaceable batteries in phones, EV batteries will never be easily user-replaceable as long as they are heavier than what a human can lift.

Swappable EV batteries are not a new thing and Renault (an EU company, thus) has done it for a long time (with mixed success though) but it's totally incomparable with this law on phone batteries.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#293

Post by birdyrooster »

constantcrying wrote: post #65
birdyrooster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think batteries can technically be submerged in water and discharged safely but it's an engineering challenge. As long as the rest of the phone is waterproof I think we are okay.

It is significantly more complicated than that. Water isn't just dangerous because it short circuits, but because it also attacks the materials. You do not want water in your phone, seperating the battery compartment also increases thickness and complexity.

Exactly my point. It's possible but complicated.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#294

Post by dang »

anigbrowl wrote: post #270
dang wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - I appreciate the help. Do you know if the final vote is just a formality or if there is a real chance it won't pass? Most proposed bills / votes don't end up resulting in much so we tend to downweight those threads on HN and wait for the thing to actually happen ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ).

The downside of this is that discussions are more likely to end up as purely reactive toward change that has already occurred, and disgruntlement among the losers over what feels like a fait accompli can poison discourse. Discussion of legislative issues prior to passage leaves open the possibility of organizing/lobbying for or against a given proposal, should an informed consensus emerge among those discussing the i…

That's true. It's not a great trade-off. The problem is the tons of low-quality "bill proposal" articles that attract attention even though they tend never to amount to anything.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#295

Post by RobotToaster »

constantcrying wrote: post #49
RobotToaster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras have been weatherproof with replaceable batteries for years, it's called gaskets.

>Cameras have been weatherproof They usually can resist some splashes. Not in any way comparable with modern phones.

I wash my pentax under the tap if it gets dirty, not sure how that compares to an iphone?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#296

Post by gok »

jrm4 wrote: post #143

Just broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.

So you're really happy that there is regulation requiring what the market already did on its own?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#297

Post by RobotToaster »

burntwater wrote: post #134
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on...

In the UK, if a company that owns intellectual property is dissolved, it becomes bona vacantia, and is officially property of the King.

There's an entire government department dedicated to selling this property.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#298

Post by RobotToaster »

veave wrote: post #258
COGlory wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kyocera has been doing it for years.

https://fdn2.mobgsm.com/vv/pics/kyocera/kyocera-duraforce-pr... I don't want my phone to look like that by law.

It looks awesome.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#299

Post by kmeisthax »

RobotToaster wrote: post #297
burntwater wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on...

In the UK, if a company that owns intellectual property is dissolved, it becomes bona vacantia, and is officially property of the King. There's an entire government department dedicated to selling this property.

Wait, are you telling me that the UK actually has a halfway-decent solution to the orphan works problem!?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#300

Post by CyberDildonics »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

The battery is still a huge problem, this is just clouding the issue with something else. Batteries wear out and have a fraction of their lifetime in a few years and can be replaced for under $20
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