This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?
Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
31–40 of 316 posts
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whilst arbitrage is certainly something which exists in the financial markets, the vast majority of what's done isn't arbitrage. Arbitrage assumes differing views on valuation of an asset today . So I can buy something from person A, which they believe to be worth value x, and sell it to person B, who believes it to be worth y, where y > x. That's arbitrage in its simplest form - the market has priced something incor…
Gotcha gotcha, that makes sense, thanks for the clear explanation! So I can see how the arbitrage (thusly defined) has the risk mitigation benefits other people talk about, can the same be said about speculation?
Ancient civilizations invented the jubilee (loans should be repaid in 7 years) to prevent speculation on them. But unfortunately, preventing extreme concentration of wealth has fallen out of favour
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#33This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#34Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#35This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?
Risk management is the product. Surely you agree that a product that reduces risk is worth something, right?
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#36This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?
Interesting observation given that your own wealth is managed this way.
Whether its the simple bank deposit in a checking account, if you've ever chased an interest rate for a savings account, or had your earnings managed in a retirement account from your employer, or if you attempted to make money faster because a debt was coming due.
Its all tied together and a product of this system.
The goal is to keep money moving within the economy, as people also race to hoard it.
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whilst arbitrage is certainly something which exists in the financial markets, the vast majority of what's done isn't arbitrage. Arbitrage assumes differing views on valuation of an asset today . So I can buy something from person A, which they believe to be worth value x, and sell it to person B, who believes it to be worth y, where y > x. That's arbitrage in its simplest form - the market has priced something incor…
Gotcha gotcha, that makes sense, thanks for the clear explanation! So I can see how the arbitrage (thusly defined) has the risk mitigation benefits other people talk about, can the same be said about speculation?
Think about it this way, actors in financial markets all have various beliefs about the future, and all of these beliefs are on a scale of accurate to inaccurate. Speculation allows these beliefs to be aggregated into a single market price (which btw implies no arbitrage) for various types of contingencies and risks, and the price will rapidly update to reflect updates to reality and thus updates to everyone’s beliefs.
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#38This is an excellent resource and a great read, but DAMN do money markets seem stupid as all get out to me. Where is the productive output of all these arbitrage shell games? How is this more than an abysmal waste of time and resources simply to make a small handful of bankers richer?
Farmers use futures contracts to protect against price risks [0]. As do energy suppliers [1]. [0] https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/99518/eib-219.... [1] https://emp.lbl.gov/publications/primer-electricity-futures-...
What percentage of futures trading is on farmers crops?
What about the crops they destroy because they would be less profitable? Does the protection against monetary risk outweigh starving people to death?
How well will it work if we create unsustainable land that the farmers can no longer grow crops on?
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whilst arbitrage is certainly something which exists in the financial markets, the vast majority of what's done isn't arbitrage. Arbitrage assumes differing views on valuation of an asset today . So I can buy something from person A, which they believe to be worth value x, and sell it to person B, who believes it to be worth y, where y > x. That's arbitrage in its simplest form - the market has priced something incor…
Gotcha gotcha, that makes sense, thanks for the clear explanation! So I can see how the arbitrage (thusly defined) has the risk mitigation benefits other people talk about, can the same be said about speculation?
Let's imagine that a commercial farmer, whom we'll call Jeremy plants 100 acres of wheat on a farm. Market values for wheat (and everything else you can farm, from livestock to grains and so on) vary and move constantly, as a function of supply and demand. We saw this in an extreme form with the invasion of the Ukraine, and the droughts in Italy last year.
Now the problem with farming is your timescales are long compared to the movements of values for your product in the market, so you've no real idea as to what what you're planting will be worth by the time the bloody thing has actually grown and you've got it harvested and into barns to be sold. And once the seed is in the ground, you can't exactly just plough it all over and plant something else (not strictly accurate, but you don't want to go down that route).
So now let's fast forward. Jeremy now harvests his wheat, and let's say the price has moved up a lot between planting and harvest. Jeremy is a happy man, who's going to have a bumper time, even if his crop doesn't produce as much per acre as he might like at the minute, because it's not raining enough. Or conditions are perfect, and the price has gone up, and he makes a huge amount and can reinvest. Jeremy is a happy camper.
However, if the price falls, Jeremy is not going to be quite so chipper. As such, Jeremy can move his risk, through the use of a hedge. Let's say Jeremy hunts around to find someone to buy his wheat at the start of the season. He might sign a contract with a flour producer, stating that they will promise to buy x tonnes of his grain at £y per tonne. Jeremy now has a fixed price, which has hedged his risk profile. Now his risk has moved from financial to productive - he has to be able to provide the x tonnes. If he can't produce it all on the farm, he needs to source the difference. On the other hand, if he's a good farmer, and the farm produces well, and he doesn't over-extend his risk on what he's committing to, he now has a fixed price contract for his goods, which isn't going to fluctuate based on time (assuming the contract is honoured - if he's worried about that, Jeremy could then buy insurance on the risk of a default on the contract, but that then gets complex). This is a very good thing, but means if the market prices his wheat vastly higher than he expected, he'll miss out on that upside.
This is called a forward contract. There's other types of contract which can be used to do similar things (futures, derivatives...) but that gets a bit more complex.
Re: Pricing Money: A beginner's guide to money, bonds, futures and swaps
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Farmers use futures contracts to protect against price risks [0]. As do energy suppliers [1]. [0] https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/99518/eib-219.... [1] https://emp.lbl.gov/publications/primer-electricity-futures-...
Why is it that every time someone mentions futures trading someone comes along to drop the farmer's crops example, do y'all really have no other examples? What percentage of futures trading is on farmers crops? What about the crops they destroy because they would be less profitable? Does the protection against monetary risk outweigh starving people to death? How well will it work if we create unsustainable land that…