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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#221

Post by brookst »

wmf wrote: post #199
nickff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar…

Note that USB-C was invented after the EU mandated Micro USB. Innovation still happens and the regulations get updated.

How did Apple sell phones in the EU without micro-USB?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#222

Post by Timon3 »

eterevsky wrote: post #216
Timon3 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you properly understood my comment. I am specifically saying: even if replacing the battery makes the phone no longer waterproof, you can just not replace the battery . Nobody comes into your house at night and forces you to install a new battery because your old one isn't good anymore.

I understood your comment. The article implies that the battery has to be _easily_ replaceable, i.e. that you could just take a battery and maybe a screwdriver out of your pocket and replace it. I don't think it's easy to design a phone that would at the same time a) have easily replaceable battery, and b) be waterproof until the first battery replacement.

Why not?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#223

Post by JohnFen »

vineyardmike wrote: post #109
smn1234 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying around bulky power banks or worse, chargers to then tie you to sit close to an outlet and wait for the battery to charge, is not entirely ideal when you're on the go, foreign or domestic. It's also less anxiety-inducing to not have to worry about where will I get my next charge and how long will it interrupt my plans for.

The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries? And it has the benefit of being sharable. And it has the benefit of being able to work hot - you don’t have to turn off your phone to charge it.

> The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries

They're a lot bulkier. Phone batteries are physically very small and light. Good power banks aren't.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#224

Post by gbear605 »

arcbyte wrote: post #167
burntwater wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on...

In 2010 you start a company, wholly owned by you. In 2011 you obtain a patent wholly owned by the company. In 2012 you fail to pay the franchise tax and filing paperwork for your company so the state dissolves it. You don't care because you aren't making money. In 2013 another company starts making a product that infringes on your patent. You are the defacto owner of the patent. This is because you were the owner of…

The purpose of a patent, generally speaking, is to encourage innovation by giving the creator legally protected time in which they can exclusively use that innovation. If they don’t use the innovation but someone else wants to, society is improved by dissolving that patent, even if the owner could theoretically be traced to some person.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#225

Post by JohnFen »

tomp wrote: post #107
smn1234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the…

What's the difference between carrying an extra replaceable battery with you, vs carrying an external battery you can use to charge the phone?

Weight, bulk, and the time it takes to actually do the charge.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#226

Post by robertlagrant »

pinusc wrote: post #140
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

It would require doing things slightly differently, such as hardware vendors having to buy the rights to redistribute firmware blobs / source code... just because it's hard it doesn't matter it can't happen. After all, if physical components can be brought together to make a product, why can't software licenses move with them? One could also imagine radically different IP laws concerning firmware or even software.

Software is replicable. It might open up companies' IP to worldwide competition. That's the difference from hardware.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#227

Post by freeone3000 »

phan wrote: post #215
JohnFen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries! Except it doesn't. The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack. What it does is add a few dollars onto the BOM.

You must be joking if you think its just a BOM adjustment and a small cost... way to oversimplify the actual implementation

There was a beautiful period where phones had a headphone jack and a USB-C connector and a replaceable battery and IP67 water resistance.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#228

Post by thrashh »

codetrotter wrote: post #129
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

> many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this So plan ahead. For the 2024 model of each iPhone, get all the permissions to release all of the firmware in year 2032.

The usual concern with regulation is not the big players.

It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#229

Post by JohnFen »

phan wrote: post #215
JohnFen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries! Except it doesn't. The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack. What it does is add a few dollars onto the BOM.

You must be joking if you think its just a BOM adjustment and a small cost... way to oversimplify the actual implementation

All I'm saying is that you used to be able to get smartphones that were like this, and they weren't any more expensive than any other smartphones. (EDIT: I was wrong, they were about $25 more expensive.)

So this is demonstrably possible. The only reason I can think of that it's not done anymore is cost savings.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#230

Post by openplatypus »

seszett wrote: post #110
ulfw wrote: post #64

So how come they aren't making car (EV) batteries replaceable? Ah yes. Europe still has a car industry whereas there is zero phone or computer industry left.

> So how come they aren't making car (EV) batteries replaceable? I don't think 500 kg batteries can ever be easily and quickly user-replaceable, no matter what the EU mandates. You should complain about the laws of physics (or the weakness of humans) rather than make this ridiculous comparison.

There is a manufacturer that has automatic battery replacement station.

You drive up. Battery bank is swapped and in 5 minutes you drive of fully charged.

It is coming. It won't happen overnight.

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