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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#201

Post by JohnFen »

eterevsky wrote: post #37
smn1234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the…

If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.

> If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery.

You can have both.

> Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me

There are cases where a power bank isn't a good solution. They big and heavy. Not being able to swap in a fully-charged battery on demand means that I can no longer use my phone for certain things that I used to be able to do.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#202

Post by throwbadubadu »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

> The problem is not really the battery anymore.

Huh, why not? I'd love yours too, but battery is also good. What do you do with a superb open source phone where you need to replace device because battery is dead and you cannot replace it? Let's please aim for both and everything!

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#203

Post by johnfernow »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #69
ruined wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

battery life is the driver of phone waste. i buy used sub-flagship phones two or three cycles behind. they're much cheaper, they do what i need, they're not too slow for modern software. but the battery is the worst part. i get a day's life at best. a year in i'm camping by outlets all day if i need to use my phone more than incidentally. all of these phones would be perfectly good on the secondary market if a batter…

I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.

iFixit sells iPhone XS Max batteries for $35, nearly a third of the cost Apple is charging. $99 may not be a ton in some regions of the world, but it is enough that many are unwilling to spend that kind of money on a 5 year old phone, versus for $35, it's a low enough amount that many might just stick with their phone and replace the battery, leading to less e-waste.

And while $99 may not be a lot in some regions of the world, but it's a significant amount of people's discretionary income in other regions (they may not be buying iPhones but the situation isn't much better for other brands as far as I'm aware.) $99 is also enough to outright buy a new cheap Android phone.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#204

Post by constantcrying »

eppp wrote: post #187
constantcrying wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern phones include glued in gaskets to enable water proofing. This is incompatible with any kind of easy removability.

Glue in all the gaskets around the electronics and then epoxy the battery terminal wires into the waterproof area. Let the battery get wet if you can get a new one.

This is what phones did previously. The issues with it are an increase in complexity and size (you need to physically seperate the components, have terminals, etc.) and that you still absolutely do not want water to get trapped in the battery compartment and possibly expose the battery to water.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#205

Post by brookst »

munk-a wrote: post #188
xenadu02 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.

Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing i…

How does the case size of a watch compare to the movement size?

Are you prepared to have a similar ratio for your phone? Basically the phones we have now with a permanent, very durable waterproof case?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#206

Post by JohnFen »

smn1234 wrote: post #77
eterevsky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.

I completely agree, that overall water resistance and IP rating would be more valuable. What's stopping figuring out how the hardware can achieve both battery replace-ability and water resistance? Phones already have holes in them, e.g. speakers and charger port, and yet are able to survive a water immersion event.

> What's stopping figuring out how the hardware can achieve both battery replace-ability and water resistance?

Nothing, since it wasn't all that long ago that there were phones that did this.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#207

Post by rad_gruchalski »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #160
ianburrell wrote: post #146

I think the big question is how "easily" replaceable are the batteries. I doubt were going back to external, swappable batteries since those add extra bulk. And that isn't needed since batteries are much better and power banks and chargers are everywhere. What is needed is a way to easily replace the battery when it gets old. Now, need to take it to repair shop or take chances with DIY. It sounds like proposal includ…

> I'm worried cause I broke a previous phone doing the same repair. Just let them ban glue in phones and they're done.

Let’s just ban everything. Let’s all go back to the trees and live in caves.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#208

Post by quijoteuniv »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I have been thinking this a lot! There so many technology that could be still use. Ipad 1 , old phones, i have been salvaging laptops with linux, and apart from video or heavy specs things they work better than new laptops with the microsoft OS.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#209

Post by jandrese »

MostlyStable wrote: post #132
nonethewiser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah battery will virtually always be the first to go. Unless you crack the screen.

in my experience, it's the charge port that goes. My last two devices, each of which I had for 3 years, the charge port failed before the battery did. I just finished fixing my current one. Although I did decide to do a battery replacement anyways while I had the device open. But that was just because of how hard it is to open them at all. My battery health monitoring app said it was at ~80% health still. And while t…

This is why I only buy phones that support inductive charging. It's really not an expensive feature and it saves so much wear and tear on the charging port.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#210

Post by pjmlp »

chongli wrote: post #56
unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

As I keep mentioning, Nokia has been building hardened phones for construction workers, with replacement batteries, for ages, all the way back to their feature phones.
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