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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#191

Post by pjmlp »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Back in the feature phone days there were zero updates.

If one was lucky, maybe with developer tools there was a firmware update, and even those happened at most once.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#192

Post by Retr0id »

randomfinn wrote: post #171
ajaimk wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure the iPhone 14 already satisfies this requirement

> A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Doesn't it still require heat to undo the glue?

No, they have pull-tabs (although they do often snap, requiring heat and/or IPA to loosen the adhesive)

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#193

Post by JohnFen »

nickff wrote: post #90
jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> "I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar…

> The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations

What conceivable stagnation could requiring replaceable batteries cause?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#194

Post by Moldoteck »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #57
candiddevmike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame Apple for everyone's obsession with size. Or really, thinness, as everyone seems to have pop tart phones as thin and fragile as glass--with such a large phone, what value does thinness really add? I'd rather have a less delicate, easily serviceable, thicker phone.

Have you purchased a fair phone? They exist promising that exact product and yet I've never come across a single person that actually purchased what they claim to want. Personally, I love the thin phones. I'd pay extra for it. It feels better and is easier carried. And the large screen makes it easily readable for my poor eyes.

I would have bought a fairphone in a second if they had camera performance similar to pixel 2/3 or 7. And no, gcam port is not a solution sadly( as usual- people want both nice software and hardware and fairphone has nice hardware but software isn't that good

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#195

Post by JohnFen »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #69
ruined wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

battery life is the driver of phone waste. i buy used sub-flagship phones two or three cycles behind. they're much cheaper, they do what i need, they're not too slow for modern software. but the battery is the worst part. i get a day's life at best. a year in i'm camping by outlets all day if i need to use my phone more than incidentally. all of these phones would be perfectly good on the secondary market if a batter…

I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.

> I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.

I do.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#196

Post by agumonkey »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

It's one chunk of the whole smartphone problem.

Software can come after (or during).

Let's amplify postmarketos a bit ..

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#197

Post by munk-a »

riedel wrote: post #61
unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Actually the EU RF, product liability and cyber security regulations rather point into a direction that disallows use of aftermarket firmware that can delay onsolecense and encourages lockdown. Instead of overregulation we need create an economic system that encourages sustainable use of resources. The EU just does what they can do best: regulate

Proper cost attribution of externalities could provide an alternative to regulation... unfortunately the only way we currently have to measure these externalities is regulation. Directly regulating the bad outcome instead of the externalities that contribute to it is less likely to lead to misaligned economic incentives.

Regulation is not a bad thing - though within the US a fair amount of regulations were constructed to increase the barrier to enter a market at the behest of lobbying.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#198

Post by brookst »

prmoustache wrote: post #173
saxonww wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this. First, it seems like you could just make the phone part waterproof and if they dunk it, they have to replace the battery. I have ruined a phone by putting it through the wash, and I would have been very happy to just replace the battery instead of chucking the phone. Beyond that, I wonder what the reality is for waterproofing needs. Are people taking smartphones diving? IP65 means it's resistant…

Most waterproof norms are only valid for freshwater. Most usb/lightning ports rust after being subjected to salted water and you end up not being able to charge your device anymore.

Really? I've taken many an iPhone snorkling in the ocean, just in zipped pocket, and they have all been fine.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#199

Post by wmf »

nickff wrote: post #90
jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

> "I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar…

Note that USB-C was invented after the EU mandated Micro USB. Innovation still happens and the regulations get updated.
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