Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#581

Post by quetzthecoatl » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:20 AM UTC

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #152

spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

Any good alternative? I like hacker news for now that it still got some comments worth reading and interesting articles

be careful for what you wish for. 4chan went from both good and bad at the same time to overwhelmingly bad, eclipsing and later drowning the good due to reddit's initial purge of problematic communities implicitly encouraging them to migrate to communities like 4chan. Reddit fostered and encouraged these communities (it is said that spez was a mod for jailbait subreddit) in the initial days when its aim was to become the website with most active users/content. You really don't want reddit users here.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#582

Post by safety1st » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:21 AM UTC

andrewinardeer wrote: post #371

safety1st wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are done, 100%, this is the turning point and it's all downhill from here. They depend fundamentally on volunteer labor and every decision they've made since announcing the API change has alienated that labor. The morale of every mod I know is in the tank. The solution for this was incredibly simple. Reddit you want to charge for the API? Go right ahead, we all want you to make money. But when the volunteer labo…

I disagree with your doomsday scenario. There are Reddit users waiting in the wings, wringing their hands ready to jump at the 'oppurtunity' to moderate established subreddits and will happily devote their time to custodial duties. No doubt some have already contacted Reddit management saying that if they de-mod x subreddit they will jump in and guarantee the subreddit's operation. I don't understand the argument abo…

You make some good points but if there's one fatal flaw these big tech CEOs and their boards seem to have it's hubris. Reddit doesn't have a moat and it also doesn't have data that's amazingly interesting. This may very well be part of a power play by Huffman but he's forgotten the only two things that really matter at the end of the day, which are quality and volume/scale. Screwing his mods hurts him on both of those counts, because bottom line is it will result in people leaving and putting their energy into rival projects. Tech giants can and do fall and it almost always happens because they lose sight of those two things which matter and get embroiled in their own internal political navel-gazing BS. If he is sacrificing quality and scale for anything he's slowly signing the death warrant of the business he manages.

Mind you this may even be intentional - "let's move this business into the maturation phase where it continually gets shittier and our margins get higher until it collapses and we sell it off or something" is a completely normal and regular strategy, happens all the time, businesses exist to make money for their owners. All businesses go through three phases, growth, maturity, and decline. But as a user or consumer if you see it moving toward the end of the cycle it's usually in your best interest to get the hell out sooner rather than later.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#583

Post by hparadiz » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

old.reddit.com is the only way that I can use reddit. I tried the new interface and it's just so bad. The change isn't subtle either. It's like using a completely different site.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#584

Post by kuschku » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

cornholio wrote: post #561

b112 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This entire thing started, as far as I recall, because the above was NOT being done. You're reading misinformation / misdirection.

And once it had gained momentum, it exploded into a power struggle with the owners of the site. It's now a pure tribal war: the mod tribe will not accept any compromise short of full rollback of the proposed changes, and Reddit cannot do that because - just like all major platforms - it cannot support adblocking alternate clients that are profitable while free riding on their infrastructure. It's also very predictabl…

There is a very simple way out that reddit could take, similar to what spotify does: Third Party Apps continue being allowed, but API access requires the user's account to have reddit gold. People would be unhappy and complain, but the protest would end, Reddit would increase their revenue, third party app developers wouldn't have to pay, and people would accept it in the end.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#585

Post by amadeuspagel » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:26 AM UTC

Some quotes from "sorted by controversial"[1], an amazing feature that I wish HN had as well:

> This is great news. Can Spez replace the r/NBA mods. Those losers need to be taught a lesson. Shutting down a huge sub with 8K votes on a hidden poll during the NBA FINALS. PATHETIC.

###

> Mods are free to run their communities the way they see fit within the boundaries of the rules that apply Reddit Wide.

> So no, this does not contradict standing policies. Free to run their communities means you as a user can either agree with the rules they state in their communities or not join.

> If you want to talk policies, don't forget about this one... Reddit Content Policy: Rule 8

> Don't break the site or do anything that interferes with normal use of the site. Do not interrupt the serving of reddit, introduce malicious code onto reddit, (or) make it difficult for anyone else to use reddit due to your actions,......

> https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004351293...

> Reddit admins would be fully within their rights to remove moderators who don't even want to stop, just for the fact they are blocking users from freely accessing their own content in the communities they participate in.

###

> If I can be voted out of my community that I created, and built for almost 10 years I will delete every fucking thing and quit this site for good. I will not stand to be overthrown because reddit administration decided to have a pissing match with mods and give all our control to the community. If I let the community run my sub from the beginning I wouldn’t have a sub. I kept it to a standard and that is largely why it has succeeded. I’m not saying I’m the only one that can moderate that sub, but I am the only one with the original vision. If it comes to this I will delete everything and let the next person create it’s replacement.

I found it particularly fascinating that this one got downvoted, when I thought that it was in line with the group think. I guess redditors actually like the idea of voting out mods, but are in too much of an anti-management mood right now?

[1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14aeq5j/new_admin...

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#586

Post by amadeuspagel » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

Facebook — a sinking ship with more people getting on then off: https://www.statista.com/statistics/346167/facebook-global-d...

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#587

Post by cornholio » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

YawningAngel wrote: post #578

cornholio wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once it had gained momentum, it exploded into a power struggle with the owners of the site. It's now a pure tribal war: the mod tribe will not accept any compromise short of full rollback of the proposed changes, and Reddit cannot do that because - just like all major platforms - it cannot support adblocking alternate clients that are profitable while free riding on their infrastructure. It's also very predictabl…

The price reddit is charging for API access seems much higher than the value to Reddit of the ads that are being blocked by the client using that API.

I agree, they are clearly eying data access as a revenue source and company moat, and position themselves for the AI boom. But even a much smaller fee would have killed 3rd party clients, and they needed to do that anyway.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#588

Post by goykasi » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:30 AM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #554

goykasi wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youre absolutely correct. Thats why I didnt mention install counts. Apple doesnt publish those numbers, and I didnt want to make any assumptions about them. But I am comfortable assuming that those reviews come from users that did install and use both apps. The opinions seems to be very positive for both. I do find it interesting that Apollo had such a steep popularity increase in the last couple of weeks[1]. [1] htt…

Many people reviewing the Reddit app will be reviewing Reddit the platform, not the app as a means of accessing the platform.

Im curious about your source on that one, but let's suppose that that statement is true. Couldn't you say the same for Apollo?

So, the large amount of positive reviews for the mobile clients also speak positively for the platform. Is that what you are theorizing?

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#589

Post by cornholio » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #584

cornholio wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once it had gained momentum, it exploded into a power struggle with the owners of the site. It's now a pure tribal war: the mod tribe will not accept any compromise short of full rollback of the proposed changes, and Reddit cannot do that because - just like all major platforms - it cannot support adblocking alternate clients that are profitable while free riding on their infrastructure. It's also very predictabl…

There is a very simple way out that reddit could take, similar to what spotify does: Third Party Apps continue being allowed, but API access requires the user's account to have reddit gold. People would be unhappy and complain, but the protest would end, Reddit would increase their revenue, third party app developers wouldn't have to pay, and people would accept it in the end.

This is not a fight over access fees, it's a fight for data. The fees are prohibitive deliberately, to guarantee nobody makes more money than Reddit out of user generated data.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#590

Post by Maxion » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #152

spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

Any good alternative? I like hacker news for now that it still got some comments worth reading and interesting articles

Surprisingly no one has mentioned Tildes.net yet. It's something in between reddit and hackernews. Requires an invite to register, though they are quite easy to find.