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Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

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Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#91

Post by ugh »

alan_cx wrote: post #76
davidkatz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I can't see any actual response to my questions here, just further hate mongering. Israel does not claim Gaza. It withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005, and gave full control over to the Palestinian Authority. Israeli NGOs even invested tens of millions of dollars in boosting the Palestinian economy after the withdrawal. Either way, it's probably going to be very hard to have a reasoned discussion, so I'll…

Since when do reasonable criticism become hate mongering?

Calling what Israel does “genocide” is not reasonable. The euphemism (“genocide tactics”) doesn’t help.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#92

Post by imran786 »

davidkatz wrote: post #28
imran786 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What utter nonsense. The Balfour Declaration was something between BRITAIN and a Zionist organisation (during WW1). How does BRITAIN have the right to give land to European Jews, when said land was the home of Palestinian Arabs, under the then sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire? Simple answer, they didn't have that right. And the ONLY reason they were able to actually exercise it, was because the Arabs (whom they had…

The Treaty of Sevres, which adopted the Balfour Declaration, was signed between the Allies and the Ottoman Empire, which, as you so pointed out, had sovereignty over the territory at the time.

Sevres was, like Versailles, the final treaty imposed on the losers by the victors. The INHABITANTS OF PALESTINE were not party to it.

The Balfour Declaration was one of the most blatent acts of perfidy and outright dishonest double-crossing in modern history. At the SAME TIME that the British promised that they would uphold the rights of Arabs to self-determination - in return for the Arabs fighting (and defeating) the Ottomans - they also effectively bartered away land that WASN'T THEIRS to a 3rd party - the Zionists.

This was all in response to someone trying to pass off the above act of basic dishonesty as legitimate authorisation for Israel, and every bit of nonsense that has followed.

The only authorisation that "Occupied Palestine" (aka Israel) ever had, from a moral perspective, was the old story of white European has guns, white European wants your land, white European will come and take it.

Whatever the reason for why the Europeans wanted it (resources, more space, or "our holy book says it belongs to US") really doesn't matter. The whole thing is a sham, which is why 60 years after the fact and after countless beatings, you still haven't "convinced" the natives that you're right.

And while we're all lecturing each other about the finer points of history, might I point out that this isn't the first time that Europeans came and took that strip of territory from the locals. And eventually, the locals took it back, lock stock and barrel ....

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#93

Post by muuh-gnu »

alan_cx wrote: post #76
davidkatz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I can't see any actual response to my questions here, just further hate mongering. Israel does not claim Gaza. It withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005, and gave full control over to the Palestinian Authority. Israeli NGOs even invested tens of millions of dollars in boosting the Palestinian economy after the withdrawal. Either way, it's probably going to be very hard to have a reasoned discussion, so I'll…

Since when do reasonable criticism become hate mongering?

> when does reasonable criticism become hate mongering?

From the point somebody starts to criticize Israel.

Criticizing Israel, at least in the West, has become the modern day equivalent of religious blasphemy. All the usual tactics for protecting religion come into play: whining, playing offended, asserting persecution, while at the same time trying to totally and utterly destroy the critic by false accusations.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#94

Post by Nate75Sanders »

rdtsc wrote: post #38
drats wrote: post #14

This is totally irrelevant to HN and is one of the issues on the Internet most likely to start a flame war. Flagged. georgecmu you appear to have been around HN a good while, which surprises me as it's more than long enough to know this is totally inappropriate. Go to reddit.com/r/worldnews or one of the other relevant subreddits if you want to discuss this issue.

It deals with renewable energy ( solar panels ) and a technology that can potentially revolutionize life in areas that are still stuck with primitive farming technologies. There is even a start-up opportunity there or a non-for-profit start-up opportunity. So I don't think the adjective totally completely applies.

doesn't change what you're saying, but "totally" is an adverb

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#95

Post by orbitingpluto »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #78
orbitingpluto wrote: post #50

If you want to take an entrepreneurial lesson from this: 1) Get your permits. Dot your Is, cross your Ts if you can. If you can't and you think you are in the right, you should probably do it anyway. 2) If someone infinitely more powerful than you wants you to fail, things will not be easy for you. 3) Politics, business and technology mix whether you want them to or not. 4) If you are a powerful entity bullying your…

After years on HN, I am going to post my first negative response to someone's comment, yours! The Israeli government's actions in this and many other acts are completely immoral. Your 1) point may have some logical validity in general, but for the good of the Israeli and Palestinian people, the whole world needs to get behind slamming down on the actions of the Israeli government, which also I believe also will hurt…

Please re-read what I wrote and clarify that you read what you think you read.

The nature of the opinions I voiced here are pretty much Chomskian in nature. If you're picking a fight with that spectrum of opinion with respect to Israel and Palestine as being to pro-Israeli, then I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you actually just misinterpreted what I said. Easy enough to do as it is an emotionally volatile subject.

I have some pretty strong emotional reactions to the existence of an apartheid state. But for real peace to happen everyone will have to set aside personal and historical feelings (or rabid crazy born again send me your money so that Armageddon may come craziness) and come up with a compromise where no one is happy, everybody is still breathing, and with a full belly from supper to boot. A moving apartheid wall of course has to go, the 1967 borders form a (sans US) international consensus, and efforts to create a mutually beneficial economic interdependency have to occur. I really believe that Israel has been moving in the wrong direction. I also believe that Israel's utility to American interests will also slowly begin to wane over time and Israel should have a long term dove-not-hawk plan to survive past their usefulness.

You might not agree with how I presented it. But I think it's important to talk about Palestine and Israel whenever possible and the way the conversation was going wasn't productive for what this forum is from a technological, business or political view. I tried to shift it to a direction where it could be honest & productive and not get down-voted out of existence from rabidness.

I'm upvoting your comment because it does look like you have both parties best interests in mind as well.

And I'm going to try to put this into a positive note:

This is also might be completely naive on my part. But the thought of one city, Jerusalem, being the capital of two different countries sounds like it should be the basis for peace and not the shitstorm that people make it out to be.

Both sides have to meet and both say, "This is fucked up. Let's fix it. Real prosperity and security is mutual prosperity and security."

I frankly would love to be able to fly to Israel, do a contract, fly to Iran, do a contract, fly to Palestine, do a contract, fly to Sweden, so on and so forth. Free mobility of labour AND free mobility of capital would require new labels. It wouldn't be your standard messed up crony big-C Capitalism of today and it wouldn't be socialism either.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#96

Post by rnrlrn »

ucee054 wrote: post #62

This post is no less informative and no more political than, for example, this post on ACTA: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620579 In my understanding it is in fact both acceptable under the guidelines and especially relevant to hackers and I will explain my reasoning on each point in order. The post is acceptable under the guidelines because it is factual reporting about Palestine and Israel, which is importan…

hasbara bla bla bla. you read thrice as many anti Israel pieces then pro ones. very few intelligent people comprehend the situation and knee jerk reactions are almost unanimously anti Israel

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#97

Post by TeeWEE »

rnrlrn wrote: post #89

off topic and annoying. anti-Israel agendas on hnews. the article is 2% about renewable energy and 98% Israel bashing, typically ignoring the Israeli point of view. shame

If somebody would write an article in nazi germany about how the jews dont get the food and the electricity they wanted than that would be an anti-nazi article. however that doesnt mean is annoying or factual wrong.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#98

Post by rnrlrn »

Estragon wrote: post #45
drats wrote: post #14

This is totally irrelevant to HN and is one of the issues on the Internet most likely to start a flame war. Flagged. georgecmu you appear to have been around HN a good while, which surprises me as it's more than long enough to know this is totally inappropriate. Go to reddit.com/r/worldnews or one of the other relevant subreddits if you want to discuss this issue.

It surprises me that people are complaining this is irrelevant to HN. It fits well with the PG/HN narrative of technology decentralizing political power -- Israel is suppressing this technology because it doesn't want to give up its control of the electricity supply.

"Israel is suppressing this technology..." that statement exactly shows the problem with this post. this is a complex political problem that has nothing to do with the technology. in fact Israel has made huge investments in solar technology. you don't have to agree with Israeli politics. as an Israeli,I rarely do either, but this post is one in a long list of demonizing and biased posts that just make the situation worse for us left wing Israelis who genuinely want a solution

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#99

Post by TeeWEE »

I was born in Amsterdam and didnt understand this conflict, after seeing numerous documentaries i have an understanding what is going on. Basically zionists believe they are the chosen ones and that all other are inferiour. They believe the land is destined to them. Whatever the UN says. If you think about it this is a similar ideology than the naxis. And in fact the same methods are used. I recommend everybody to watch the documentaryovie '5 broken cameras'

http://newsterrorist.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/picture-compar...

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#100

Post by TeeWEE »

TeeWEE wrote: post #99

I was born in Amsterdam and didnt understand this conflict, after seeing numerous documentaries i have an understanding what is going on. Basically zionists believe they are the chosen ones and that all other are inferiour. They believe the land is destined to them. Whatever the UN says. If you think about it this is a similar ideology than the naxis. And in fact the same methods are used. I recommend everybody to wa…

Sorry for flaming. But please watch the documentary I mentioned.
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