Live data from Hacker News

Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

newsingermany.com

161–170 of 194 posts

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#161
post #123

This is mindblowing. Here we are, 3000 years in the future. But how many of us could make such a “primitive” thing?

How many people could make them 3000 years ago? Im curious how many blacksmiths there were back then with the appropriate skill and resources to learn it and do it well. I feel as if there are still a surprising number of people that could make a sword today, although maybe not from raw resources.

> Im curious how many blacksmiths there were back then...

The sword is bronze, blacksmiths work with iron. Bronze is usually cast, iron is usually forged (heated and hit with a hammer).

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#162
post #123

This is mindblowing. Here we are, 3000 years in the future. But how many of us could make such a “primitive” thing?

Its more than simply making the thing.

There's advancement in several fields of study and industry that need to happen before you can make the thing, especially circa 3000. Geography, Mining, Manpower, Logistics, Science... to name a few!

This post covers it quite well.

https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-...

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, what's your oldest sword and where does it come from? Do you display them or just collect them? I have a friend in Australia with a fairly significant knife (not sword) collection which will be for sale shortly (aged owner), let me know if interested.

I too have knives in my collection, and would be interested but generally shipping things from Australia is hecka expensive too. Generally, I add things, with interesting stories to my collection. My oldest sword is privileged information but my favorite is the first one I got. In 1990 I was visiting Edinburgh on business for Sun, and I wanted a Claymore in celebration of my Scottish ancestry. At the Haymarket, I met…

Great story. Do send me an email, the owner will need to share their catalog and price, but I don't think the shipping would pose an issue as three of us are flying in a couple of months and could bring it over then.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#164

A question for the metallurgists: how would a bronze sword compare to an iron sword, even if the iron is low quality (ie, impurities, not heat treated etc)?

Not a metallurgist but — my understanding is that pure iron weapons are quite inferior to bronze. Pure iron is very soft and ductile. It would not hold an edge well and is easily bent - to the point that some sources say they would need to be repeatedly un-bent during battle.

Another advantage of bronze weapons is they could be cast in a mold instead of forged.

Iron was much more plentiful than copper and tin however (especially as they were mined out), which was the main reason bronze fell out of use.

Good steel was superior to both, but much harder to make.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#165
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are comparable. A blow from a bronze sword will kill you just as well as a blow from an iron sword. The most widespread weapon of all times prior to the American Revolutionary War and the Napoleonic wars were spears. A spear with a bronze tip and one with an iron tip will also kill you with equal probability. If you have a shield, the damage to the spear is much more likely to come from a broken shaft th…

What were swords used for if not for battle?

People often compare sword with handguns. Handguns nowadays are deadly weapons, but they are not used in war, where people use assault rifles instead, or other heavier weapons. Swords were sidearms. Warriors carried them around every day, they could be used for self defense (in those times there was not police or law enforcement). Or they could be used for intimidating opponents, and if needed, for chopping someone's head or limb.

In combat though, spears were much, much more effective.

With one exception. As far as I can tell only one exception, but a big one. The Romans have figured out that all other people are quite bad at close quarters combat. Since soldiers were used to using spears, very few soldiers knew what to do if someone got in a close range than the length of a spear. The Romans then would bull-rush the enemy using their shield, and when close they would use their (quite short) swords. Without training, their opponents didn't stand a chance. Of course, this type of battle tactic required an enormous amount of training. The Romans did that because they were a very war-oriented society. Others couldn't match their level of training.

Even for the Romans though, who were regularly using swords, the choice of bronze versus iron would have made little difference. Although bronze is a bit more brittle than iron, and a bronze sword is more likely to break when it strikes a hard object, the Romans were trained to thrust the sword, not to use slashing moves. Thrusting is much more deadly, but less instinctive. It's another thing that requires extensive training, which the Romans were great at. For thrusting, I think a bronze and an iron sword do equally well.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#167
post #123

This is mindblowing. Here we are, 3000 years in the future. But how many of us could make such a “primitive” thing?

We can do and learn things that require further intellectual ability though ;) How many "primitives" could pass a 8year olds Spelling Bee?

How many people can really spell that many words correctly today? Without a red squiggly line that is. I know I personally am terrible at it. Like really, really bad. So are most people I know well enough to admit it. English for example is a terrible language with so many edge cases and tons of inconsistency that to me as a layman make zero sense.

For example I try to sound out words with my kids as they learn to read. But it's not that simple. So many words are pronounced "incorrectly". It makes it very frustrating for all parties involved.

So.. is mass memorizing how to spell complicated words truly a sign of intelligence or just applied memorization to a field.

I would simply say I hate spelling but I loathe it so I can seem smarter even though they mean the same thing. English...

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found though that my kitchen knife is not very good when I have to parry, or when I have to bash my way through a shield.

Nobody would have parried with a sword, except in desperate situations, because of the risk of breaking the sword or damaging its edge. That's what the shield was for. However you have a valid point that anyone wielding a sword had to resist the shock of a successful parry with the shield done by the opponent. For thrusting movements, I do not believe that such a bronze handle would have been worse than any other han…

The reason I bring it up is a (minuscule) amount of personal experience: I've had the chance to practice/play fight with a replica bronze sword & shield against an opponent. We were expressly forbidden from parrying with the swords and it surprised me just how physically demanding the parries were against the shield, largely I think due to the ringing. Regaining control after the impact of the sword was hard.

That said, the craftsmanship of the sword I used was nothing like the one in the TFA and it didn't have a handle cast onto the blade, nor such an intricate design. I don't know how accurate the shield were to the time period (one was leather bound, the tower shield was not) but they didn't have metal rims and shield bosses.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was one of the most popular and widespread occupations

I think it’s more accurate to say most communities had a blacksmith. “Farmer” was the most popular and widespread occultations. A community at that time didn’t require a ton of specialized labor, they needed more people using the output of a blacksmith.

Unlike how popular culture depicts, blacksmiths seldom operated alone. A village would have a big team of blacksmiths, including many acolytes.
Post reply on HN