Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#321

Post by BHSPitMonkey » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #134

mandmandam wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! And they're so incredibly cheap to run, in the scheme of things. They're TEXT and LINKS ffs. Even Snapchat, which deals in video, costs about $2.50 per user per year to run. Honestly, we're some set of dopes to let people like Zuck and Huffman build yachts and apocalypse bunkers, with bloody advertising money, all for the genius idea of sharing text and links on the internet.

Well there are pictures and video too.

Not until later in Reddit's history, when they (just like Facebook) wanted to wrestle some power away from the likes of YouTube and Imgur. (Smartly so, since these platforms had lots of leverage to be able to turn off embedding one day and sour the Reddit UX / drive users away from the site. But this change did not make Reddit more valuable to its users.)

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#322

Post by Kilgore54 » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

deepsun wrote: post #238

moskie wrote: post #76

We (the internet community) made such a terrible mistake with social media. We formed connections and communities and friendships on sites like Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, but those companies need to make money, so those connections are only allowed to exist as long as they are part of a profitable system. How awful it is to reduce human connection to that. To think that I am only allowed to maintain certain soc…

Yet every time I point to the root of the problem -- that most social media web properties are privately owned by their respective shareholders, who just benevolently let you store your* texts and photos at their premises for free -- I get downvoted heavily here on HN. The community doesn't want to hear that here.

Yeah absolutely The problem here is the profit motive. What we need are sustainable communities that are not controlled by sectors of private capital and they treat their users like products or widgets.

I know some people are in America, especially above a certain age, refuse to think this way. Decades of Chicago school neoliberal propaganda has convinced them that anything good has to be driven by a profit motive.

I would have hope this community would be a little bit better than that but I'm fairly new to it

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#323

Post by this_user » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #101

moskie wrote: post #76

We (the internet community) made such a terrible mistake with social media. We formed connections and communities and friendships on sites like Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, but those companies need to make money, so those connections are only allowed to exist as long as they are part of a profitable system. How awful it is to reduce human connection to that. To think that I am only allowed to maintain certain soc…

Yes! And they're so incredibly cheap to run, in the scheme of things. They're TEXT and LINKS ffs. Even Snapchat, which deals in video, costs about $2.50 per user per year to run. Honestly, we're some set of dopes to let people like Zuck and Huffman build yachts and apocalypse bunkers, with bloody advertising money, all for the genius idea of sharing text and links on the internet.

Social networks derive their value from their size. $2.5 per year per user may not be much, but if you have just 1000 users, that is already $2500 per year. 100000 users is a quarter of a million per year. Are you going to pay for that out of pocket?

It takes money to run a social network of meaningful size in even just a halfway professional manner. Who would do that while receiving nothing in return?

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#324

Post by tensor » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

NoboruWataya wrote: post #236

moskie wrote: post #76

We (the internet community) made such a terrible mistake with social media. We formed connections and communities and friendships on sites like Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, but those companies need to make money, so those connections are only allowed to exist as long as they are part of a profitable system. How awful it is to reduce human connection to that. To think that I am only allowed to maintain certain soc…

This is why I think federated alternatives like Lemmy are important and I would like to see communities migrate there instead of some other corporate walled garden. Otherwise we'll just be having the exact same discussion about some other website in five years. It pains me to see even a lot of FOSS-focused communities move their discussions to Discord, for example. Most of the criticisms of the federated platforms ce…

I'd love to see something without federation, but using a wikipedia style model to support it. I don't think federation will ever be sufficiently simple for the majority of people to adopt, and I think the world needs a world forum that is accessible for everyone, not just tech people.

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#325

Post by stOneskull » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

s-zeng wrote: post #47

simlevesque wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://kbin.social/m/apple is already thriving There were 2 posts in the last 24 hours. It's not thriving by any measure.

Collectively, Lemmy and kbin instances (which federate with each other) just reached over 125k users or so. I've really enjoyed my time there so far.

does federate with each other mean you have one account and can log in into lemmy and kbin with that one account? or is it you can use lemmy with a kbin account and vice versa?

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#326

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:04 AM UTC

jarfil wrote: post #211

satvikpendem wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can anyone sincerely believe that being a user, even a mod, on another platform by a corporate entity lets them have their own space? I mean, of course the company owns everything one does or publishes on said platform. There is no trust because the premise is faulty in the first place. The fact that people actually believed that is not really the problem of the platform, there is always inherent platform risk.

It is an issue of trust precisely because a third party controls the platform. If mods actually owned the infrastructure for their spaces, there would be no trust involved, they'd just own it. In this case, mods trusted the company making a promise about the platform, breaking that promise breaks the trust in the company, and makes the platform risk plain to see for all.

I don’t think any mod could possibly have thought Reddit was making such a strong promise. The moderator community has repeatedly asked Reddit to take an active stance in moderation disputes; the most recent blackout protest before this one was asking Reddit to prohibit Covid denialism.

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#327

Post by basch » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

EA-3167 wrote: post #87

CincinnatiMan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are likely hundreds if not thousands of users who would be willing to become mods of each of the subreddits that are still in private mode. I know I would mod some of the subs I find useful.

How do you tell a willing user with the intention to keep a sub running as is, and a willing user who just wants to burn it all down, turn it into their own fiefdom, or worse? What's the ratio of the former to the latter, and does Reddit have the manpower to tell to the difference on a time frame that keeps the subs alive? What's the impact of a bunch of people who know how the sausage is made being essentially coup'…

They already are fiefdoms

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#328

Post by dsir » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #302

dsir wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on a platform with a bit of a different take on the online community space. It's sort of a Reddit/Discord/Patreon hybrid. We've built a place to monetarily incentivize ownership over the communities created on the platform. It feels like the people curating the communities should be rewarded for the work that they do. Here's an example community: https://sociables.com/community/Sports/board/trending

A couple work-in-progress sites have been posted here that seem, like yours, to be aiming for a business model that isn’t 100% ad funded. I think it is really cool that people are trying new businesses models, ad driven social media has all sorts of awful incentives, hopefully one of you folks can win the next round.

Appreciate the feedback! Is there anything specific you'd like to see added to whatever platforms win out?

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#329

Post by Matheus28 » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

TheAdamist wrote: post #300

The mods are only punishing the users of the subreddit, they arent hurting reddit itself at all. Ban them and free any closed subreddits. All the user polls various subs are overwhelming voted to stay open with 99% of the comments pro open.

1. The only people who are voting are the ones crossing the picket line. What did you expect?

2. Obviously it's hurting reddit, otherwise they wouldn't even feel the need to threaten taking back subreddits.

Re: Reddit Threatens to Remove Moderators from Subreddits Continuing Blackouts

#330

Post by lordfrito » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

EA-3167 wrote: post #219

moskie wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered for a long time if social media is just a fad.

I think anonymous social media as the mainstream is a fad, the end-point is going to be more like Snow Crash, minus the artistic flair. I think text-based, possibly anonymous social media will persist, but it won't be what billions of people are doing. Most of the problems with social media come down to the ability of people to separate themselves from the consequences of their speech and actions. I don't think that…

100% this.

The problems of social media are largely already solved in the real world, where there are real consequences to bad behavior. Reputation is a thing in the real world.

We're still in the medieval ages of the internet. People are regularly waylaid and conned by digital highwaymen.

We need the digital equivalent of a reputation in the digital world. Will end up being similar to a SSN -- an identity that follows you around and can't be shaken. It's going to very unpopular with the libertarian minded, privacy focused, and religious mark-of-the beast types. But I see no other way forward.