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North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

bbc.co.uk

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Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#81
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China decided they would no longer back North Korea, the regime could be replaced in hours. Most of the time, when toppling regimes, you have to be worried about someone even worse taking over. In this case, I don't see how it could get any worse.

> I don't see how it could get any worse. The embattled regime could employ a scorched earth policy and will launch all the weapons they've got, resulting in millions of civilian deaths. That seems worse to me. It's not like Saddam Hussein or the Taliban, or even Putin's Russia. If it wasn't for that Korea could be reunited and it will probably end up fairly well, similar to how the reunification of Germany ended up…

The economic, industrial, agricultural, social, technological and cultural differences between north and south Korea are far, far greater than between east and west Germany.

Germany still has east-west integration problems.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#82
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how it could get any worse. The embattled regime could employ a scorched earth policy and will launch all the weapons they've got, resulting in millions of civilian deaths. That seems worse to me. It's not like Saddam Hussein or the Taliban, or even Putin's Russia. If it wasn't for that Korea could be reunited and it will probably end up fairly well, similar to how the reunification of Germany ended up…

The economic, industrial, agricultural, social, technological and cultural differences between north and south Korea are far, far greater than between east and west Germany. Germany still has east-west integration problems.

Almost every country has regional differences; for a variety of reasons. "Integration problems" is overstating the issue IMO.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#83
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's military industrial complex propaganda. The North Korean air force consists of just 40 MiG 29's. The ROK military outclasses NK in every way that matters, including 167 F16's, 60 F15E's, and 40 F35's. This is in addition to the 160 F16's the US has stationed there.

I'll assume that is the case, but that says exactly nothing about artillery capability or the damage this can do in just a matter of hours. How many pieces of (often fortified) artillery do you think those 427 places can take out before shelling starts?

The report you link to provides no evidence that NK has the capability to launch such an attack. The idea that NK has 6000 serviceable artillery tubes and large stocks of serviceable ammunition in the field and ready to be used within an hour is difficult to believable, especially without evidence. This would require propositioned weapons and munitions similar to the Maginot line, which NK does not have nor can it afford.

I'll also point out that ROK and the US maintain 24/7 surveillance of NK depots and munitions storage areas (and pretty much everything else). NK could not attempt to mount such an operation without being detected. Unless they use their 100 year old stealth biplanes, then all bets are off.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#84
post #22

I remember years ago reading about someone from the north who had defected to South Korea after they were shown an episode of a SK TV show about two women fighting over a car parking space. Seeing a normal person in the country next door being able to argue over something so inconsequential because they already had every basic need met cut through. I'm sure SK tries to send propaganda information to the north. Maybe…

The harsh reality is that NK defectors could end up being second class citizens in the South or wish to return back [0]. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/forever-strang...

Perhaps more harsh is that the entire population of NK cannot just defect south. A few people have managed. The only path would be an uprising and that will only work if it includes the military personnel and security apparatus. I never understand why those folks are ok doing what they do and being the tools of dictators against even their own family. But time and again we're shown people will do their job to the bitter end.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in this thread itself are talking about how they wish NK would be invaded. You can justify pretty much anything using any justification as long as enough people believe or support it.

TFA has a North Korean wishing that the US would invade so that they could be free.

Okay...you can find people in the US who wish the US would be invaded by another country and taken over too so they can be free from a capitalist hellscape or whatever. Doesn't really say much except you can find those types of people everywhere.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#86
post #79

North Korea runs contrary to my intuition about dictators. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of regicide, but most dictatorships, even among the most horrific, represent some sort of misguided attempt at benevolance. Killing dissidents? Sure, they're getting in the way of your utopian plan. Failed economic plans that lead to famine? Well, the idea had some justification, better pivot to avoid further harm. Hell…

>North Korea's leadership doesn't seem to have any interest at all in the wellbeing of the populace. It's a manufactured impression. Western oligarchy controlled media doesnt like to talk about how they pay $0 for college and medical care. They focus exclusively on the prison camps, etc. North Koreans are fed an impression of America that centers around stuff like Guantanamo bay, Abu ghraib, medical bankruptcies and…

Making that argument about, say, Cuba makes plenty of sense to me. Sure, there's a relatively oppressive regime, but they also have made a lot of moves that genuinely have the people's interest at heart, and most people's needs are being met. That claim doesn't work when almost half your populace is starving: literally the second most important human need is being failed.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#87
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA has a North Korean wishing that the US would invade so that they could be free.

Okay...you can find people in the US who wish the US would be invaded by another country and taken over too so they can be free from a capitalist hellscape or whatever. Doesn't really say much except you can find those types of people everywhere.

> People in this thread itself are talking about how they wish NK would be invaded. You can justify pretty much anything using any justification as long as enough people believe or support it.

So what is your point here? That it would be...wrong to invade? Something else?

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#88

North Korea runs contrary to my intuition about dictators. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of regicide, but most dictatorships, even among the most horrific, represent some sort of misguided attempt at benevolance. Killing dissidents? Sure, they're getting in the way of your utopian plan. Failed economic plans that lead to famine? Well, the idea had some justification, better pivot to avoid further harm. Hell…

> represent some sort of misguided attempt at benevolence This is the image dictatorships sell to their poor, uneducated, and ill-informed public. The reality is much worse. Rulers tend to make decisions that benefit those who they share power with (no man rules alone). Dictatorships thrive where there are abundant natural resources combined with an uneducated public. Democracies tend to thrive where a country's main…

I've seen the series, and I'm not talking about the politics of maintaining power. I'm talking about the leadership's motivation: Why do you become Supreme Leader instead of merely being one of those oligarchs? Life's a lot easier for those power brokers, people who rise to the very top of power have a reason, at least for themselves.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> represent some sort of misguided attempt at benevolence This is the image dictatorships sell to their poor, uneducated, and ill-informed public. The reality is much worse. Rulers tend to make decisions that benefit those who they share power with (no man rules alone). Dictatorships thrive where there are abundant natural resources combined with an uneducated public. Democracies tend to thrive where a country's main…

I've seen the series, and I'm not talking about the politics of maintaining power. I'm talking about the leadership's motivation: Why do you become Supreme Leader instead of merely being one of those oligarchs? Life's a lot easier for those power brokers, people who rise to the very top of power have a reason, at least for themselves.

If you're still talking about North Korea, well the current Supreme Leader was born into it. I suppose he likes the lifestyle, and the ability to order people around and generally do what he pleases. It's better than being an underlying, or a starving person. Plus it's all he knows.

He's demonstrated his willingness to execute people (including his half-brother) to maintain his grip on power. So this isn't a guy who is worried about ethics and morals. He understands the politics of power, and is clearly capable of doing what it takes to hold on to power. These are men not to be trifled with. It's probably kill or be killed at this point. He's smart enough to have recognized that early on, which is why he's still around and his brother isn't.

Sometimes power and prestige, getting your way, winning and being right all the time are the ends in and of themselves. Having worked with many C-level people, I can say that their one common motivation seems to be "winning at any cost". If people are helped along the way, great. If people are hurt, well... tough decisions had to be made.

It definitely takes charisma, and the ability to convince people that you have their best interests in mind. Steve Jobs' reality distortion field comes to mind. The essence of a politician is they always seem to agree with you and be on your side, but you never know what they're really thinking, and don't be surprised if they blindside you at some point.

Evolutionary biologists suggest that there's a reason our species tolerates sociopaths (it's seemingly in our gene pool) -- they have the ability to get things done and build empires, skills that are needed to navigate/survive at the very top of large power structures.

Re: North Koreans speak secretly to BBC from inside closed country

#90
post #6

> Like most women in North Korea, she is the main earner in the family. The meagre wages men earn in their compulsory state jobs are all but worthless, forcing their wives to find creative ways to make a living. Really interesting! Economic policies have created a system where women earn much more than men on average. I think that's quite rare globally.

1. read the room; and 2. this is one of the most tone deaf comments I've ever read.

Pretty sure it's satire.
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