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Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

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Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#41

Post by batista »

davidkatz wrote: post #27
ComputerGuru wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Israel limits the amount of power going into Gaza purposely. Not only are they refusing to provide them with power (they're obviously paying for it, not "taking" it from Israel), but they're also preventing them from generating their own electricity as well. Depending on where you are in Gaza, you have anywhere from four to eighteen hours of power a day under normal circumstances. When the tensions rise, you'…

Two questions: (1) Why do you think Israel should be obliged to supply electricity to a hostile territory, ruled by a government that explicitly states it's desire to destroy it [1], backed up with routine rocket fire into Israeli population centers? (2) How exactly is Israel preventing the generation of electricity in Gaza? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant EDIT: grammar correction

(1) Why do you think Israel should be obliged to supply electricity to a hostile territory

Why do you think a newly found state (~65 years) has any right to claim the territory it occupies (except of the might makes right variety)?

ruled by a government that explicitly states it's desire to destroy it [1]

As opposed to a government that occupied the land from the previous inhabitants and has been steadily displacing them for decades?

backed up with routine rocket fire into Israeli population centers?

Backed up with routine genocide tactics...

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#42

Post by rdtsc »

JS_startup wrote: post #34
nailer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pg has steadfastly refused to limit topic discussion beyond the wide ranging and vague 'anything that may be on interest to hackers'.

Not sure why 'hackers' would care about Israel-Palestine drama

They might not but they might care about Solar panels. That is probably why it was submitted.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#43

Post by batista »

davidkatz wrote: post #23
[deleted] wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

This just sounds wrong to me. The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed. Each side has legitimate claims to them, and their status can only be resolved through negotiations, which is what the sides themselves agreed to in the Oslo Accords [1]. Furthermore, by what is the claim that Israel smashes every attempt of Palestinian economic development supported? Over a decade, Israel ceded territory and…

The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed.

Really? Have you asked the UN?

If I come into your house, after living for 2,000 years away from the area, and claim some rooms mine, would you consider them "disputed"?

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#44

Post by rdtsc »

Vivtek wrote: post #13
philco wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't vote it up! I find it funny to read this comment while the number 1 post on HN is about a magician and his tricks...hehe. I really enjoyed both articles though. Just vote for what you like and don't click on things you don't care about.

Cognitive bias is arguably more germane to HN than international energy politics.

Cognitive bias when discussion certain political articles on HN but not others and how some political topics are acceptable but others are not, even in forums frequented by supposedly rather rational individuals, is also interesting.

At this point, this discussion is more interesting to me at the meta-level more than its original topic.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#45

Post by Estragon »

drats wrote: post #14

This is totally irrelevant to HN and is one of the issues on the Internet most likely to start a flame war. Flagged. georgecmu you appear to have been around HN a good while, which surprises me as it's more than long enough to know this is totally inappropriate. Go to reddit.com/r/worldnews or one of the other relevant subreddits if you want to discuss this issue.

It surprises me that people are complaining this is irrelevant to HN. It fits well with the PG/HN narrative of technology decentralizing political power -- Israel is suppressing this technology because it doesn't want to give up its control of the electricity supply.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#46

Post by csomar »

rdtsc wrote: post #40
csomar wrote: post #36

I flagged this post. It's not a problem to discuss politics, but it should have a value. Do the HN community want to discuss the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? Fine, submit an article about that. But submitting such an article will only trigger a flame-war. The content of the article is of the kind that triggers 'oh, ass-hole Israeli', and 'oh, Palestinians uses this to kill innocents'. These are details. Not the actu…

Alright, let's do this thought experiment. Replace words like Israel and Palestine in the article with countries in Africa. Something like "Water pumps running off of solar power in Kenya, provided by a German start up are being removed by the local government". Would that be acceptable for HN? I am 80% confident, we wouldn't see all this discussion about how the story should have been flagged and or how it is totall…

Israel is not the West-Bank government. Well, we can argue on that. But that makes your comparison inadequate, at least in my opinion.

But I'm here questioning the value of the discussion. If the Kenyan gov. removed the solar plants then there should be some reason, and that's worth discussing. I don't think that any (sane) gov. would remove solar plants providing free energy?

The value/(probability to start a war) of the article is close to 0. That's why I flagged the article. It's still my opinion, and I gave my argument. Certainly, I'd respect the HN community choice of what to discuss and how to discuss it.

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#47

Post by mcantelon »

coolestuk wrote: post #20
lninyo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, Did the Jews have "authorization" to barge into someone else's country, commit genocide, ethnic cleansing and a 50 year war against the original inhabitants? (aside from that old rag called "The Old TEstament") ... Jus sayin'

That is the kind of ignorant idea I used to have. It is time you got beyond the media failing to provide a true historical context for what is probably the most over-reported region of the planet. Already in 1929 in Hebron "Palestinian" Arabs were massacring jews in Hebron. Jews who had live in Hebron for some thousands of years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre The way the media presents this story,…

Jews had lived in the region for thousands of years, but there was a Zionist mass migration to Palestine (the Jewish population in Palestine doubled from 1922-1931) that likely increased tensions.

There has been violence from both sides of the conflict. On the Zionist side, there's another incident I've never heard mentioned in the media: the 1946 David Hotel bombing in which a Zionist terorist organization bombed a hotel in a strike at the British, killing 91 in one of the first historic examples of terrorism targeting civilians. This bombing was commemorated in 2006 by Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of the terrorist organization and a plaque was put up that effectively blamed the British, rather than the terrorist operation, for the deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing#60th_a...

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#48

Post by [deleted] »

rdtsc wrote: post #39
davidkatz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds wrong to me. The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed. Each side has legitimate claims to them, and their status can only be resolved through negotiations, which is what the sides themselves agreed to in the Oslo Accords [1]. Furthermore, by what is the claim that Israel smashes every attempt of Palestinian economic development supported? Over a decade, Israel ceded territory and…

The are occupied from the point of view of the people living there. If your family lives there for hundreds of years then a new government comes in and takes over your house and evicts you, or demolishes your house under some "license" or "permit clause" and then evicts you, it is not unreasonable to call that an occupation.

[deleted]

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#49

Post by [deleted] »

batista wrote: post #43
davidkatz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds wrong to me. The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed. Each side has legitimate claims to them, and their status can only be resolved through negotiations, which is what the sides themselves agreed to in the Oslo Accords [1]. Furthermore, by what is the claim that Israel smashes every attempt of Palestinian economic development supported? Over a decade, Israel ceded territory and…

The territories under question are not occupied, but disputed. Really? Have you asked the UN? If I come into your house, after living for 2,000 years away from the area, and claim some rooms mine, would you consider them "disputed"?

[deleted]

Re: Israel to destroy Palestinians' solar panels

#50

Post by orbitingpluto »

If you want to take an entrepreneurial lesson from this:

1) Get your permits. Dot your Is, cross your Ts if you can. If you can't and you think you are in the right, you should probably do it anyway. 2) If someone infinitely more powerful than you wants you to fail, things will not be easy for you. 3) Politics, business and technology mix whether you want them to or not. 4) If you are a powerful entity bullying your competition, there will be bad PR. There may be consequences in the future. You've been warned and it may be in your long-term interests to behave yourself.

Interestingly enough as I read the above I see a strong pro-Palestinian bent. But the 3 Jews sitting next to me right now would see me as a more middle-of-the-road-why-can't-we-all-get-along sort.

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