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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#711

Post by evandale »

predictabl3 wrote: post #118
UberFly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. I guess people can't handle that. This is from the article, it tracks with your sentiment: Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that wor…

Are we actually claiming that "Virus leak from scary china" would've gotten people to wear masks more or isolate more, versus "Virus killing people keeps spreading?" Or am I missing the point?

I think you're understanding the point. Consider what you would call an average Trump supporter. Consider what they would think if Trump declared "This China flu isn't a normal flu. The Chinese designed it in a lab and now it's out in the world. I urge every American to wear masks and get vaccinated to stop this Chinese flu."

How do you think the average Trump supporter would respond to that? Now consider what would have happened if he went all out and said the Chinese released it on purpose? It's scary to think that if he pushed the bioweapon angle it's likely that Republicans would have been lining up for vaccines and the other side taking the advice of Jenny McCarthy and refusing it.

There is so much wrong with how the pandemic was handled and the #1 things were making it a political issue, using xenophobia as a reason to not implement effective policies, and not treating it like the medical emergency that it was.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#712

Post by jacquesm »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #709
jacquesm wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

96.1 genomic match is less than the match between a male chimpanzee and a male human.

There is no closer match to SARS-CoV-2 found in the wild. Pangolins were floated for awhile but I believe the samples were 91%~ If there was GoF being done on the sample (adding of the spike protein to infect humans), that could be the remaining percentage.

Indeed. So the only reasonable conclusion so far is that we haven't found the reservoir host yet. This may take a while and it may even never happen. If and when we do we will finally be able to make another step in this whole saga.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#713

Post by lamontcg »

kcplate wrote: post #306
taeric wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly, I assumed I had it early in the waves. Never got a positive test, as folks weren't testing back then. Finally had our first positive test this year. And whatever I had at the start was way way worse than when I had covid. Such that I can understand a lot of folks being very confused on all of this.

I didn’t have anything early (I’ve never caught it despite multiple direct exposures, but I rarely get sick from anything anyway), but both my wife and son-in-law came back from separate business trips in late January/early Feb 2020 with all the classic symptoms. Both subsequently caught Covid in 2022 and both described the experience as very similar to their 2020 experiences. No way to know for sure if it was Covid…

late Jan / early Feb becomes more possible. there was certainly cryptic spread by then that was happening over airplane travel. both of them getting it would be unlikely though unless both of them were in china or italy or had contact with people from there.

but you simply cannot diagnose covid just via symptoms. every symptom that covid causes can be caused by other respiratory viruses, covid just makes it more likely that you'll get more severe symptoms.

2019/2020 cold and flu season, before covid showed up, was also a particularly bad year, with H1N1 back and influenza B spreading at the same time (plus RSV, common cold coronaviruses, human metapneumovirus and everything else).

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#714

Post by NoobSaibot135 »

pezezin wrote: post #497
kayodelycaon wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got H1N1. The only reason I didn’t end up in a hospital was because I forced myself to stay hydrated and somewhat lucid when I wasn’t able to sleep. It was really bad.

I got a type-A flu this year in early January, and holy shit was it painful, I hadn't been that sick in 25 years. Some co-workers and relatives also got it (in opposite sides of the Earth!) and reported the same, this year the flu was really strong. In comparison, I had corona last week and it was a walk in the park (I am also quad-vaccinated, that might have helped).

I also had a very bad flu in early Jan2020. I'm typically very strong but my body was sapped of energy for 5 days and was different than any other sickness I've experienced.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#715

Post by MrOwnPut »

jacquesm wrote: post #712
MrOwnPut wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no closer match to SARS-CoV-2 found in the wild. Pangolins were floated for awhile but I believe the samples were 91%~ If there was GoF being done on the sample (adding of the spike protein to infect humans), that could be the remaining percentage.

Indeed. So the only reasonable conclusion so far is that we haven't found the reservoir host yet. This may take a while and it may even never happen. If and when we do we will finally be able to make another step in this whole saga.

You ignored this part of my statement:

> If there was GoF being done on the sample (adding of the spike protein to infect humans), that could be the remaining percentage.

I do not believe one bit the only "reasonable conclusion" is it has to be from nature.

Between the lab sample, the outbreak area, the GoF program being run, the timing, history of lab leaks, and the reaction, a lab leak is very reasonable...

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#716

Post by jedmeyers »

evandale wrote: post #689
jedmeyers wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which vaccine specifically provided the "immunity"?

GP said "herd immunity" not "immunity" and herd immunity has nothing to do with 100% of the population being 100% immune.

How are you getting to "herd immunity" without "immunity"? No one said saying about 100% of the population being 100% immune, it's a strawman.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#717

Post by iudqnolq »

kcplate wrote: post #450
api wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize the MSM lies. I just also realize that “alternative” media lies as well, especially when it’s full of hyper-partisan or ideologue hacks. Taibbi is clearly a partisan hack that only attacks one side, ever. I don’t know the other one but his feed has a strong new right hack feel to it. There are plenty of lefty hacks around too. It’s not a one sided phenomenon.

> Taibbi is clearly a partisan hack that only attacks one side, ever. You should probably expand your reading to his articles in Rolling Stone, particularly those from 4-5 years ago. You would not say “ever” if you did that. But…for a writer that admittedly leans left in his politics, he is willing to call out that side when a story leads there. He is much like Glenn Greenwald in that respect. Both he and Glenn get a…

He falls into the class of writers who claims to lean left but in the past years has actually been a pretty obvious supporter of the right. This is a transparent yet effective schtick - for some reason people never question the framing of "even so-and-so is willing to call out their own side".

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#718

Post by dent9876543 »

iudqnolq wrote: post #717
kcplate wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taibbi is clearly a partisan hack that only attacks one side, ever. You should probably expand your reading to his articles in Rolling Stone, particularly those from 4-5 years ago. You would not say “ever” if you did that. But…for a writer that admittedly leans left in his politics, he is willing to call out that side when a story leads there. He is much like Glenn Greenwald in that respect. Both he and Glenn get a…

He falls into the class of writers who claims to lean left but in the past years has actually been a pretty obvious supporter of the right. This is a transparent yet effective schtick - for some reason people never question the framing of "even so-and-so is willing to call out their own side".

Since COVID, I find the who left and right thing hugely confusing.

I used to identify as left, and would still do that, except that what passed for left-leaning news during COVID became nothing more than propaganda, and left-leaning journalist put their investigative and sceptical credentials to one side.

During COVID, and still perhaps even now, it turns out you can become a member of the far right, just by staying politically still.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#719

Post by heisenbit »

logifail wrote: post #598
jlmorton wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Importantly, Covid very rarely results in severe symptoms for middle aged adults. In the vast majority of adults, the symptoms are mild and nonspecific. So the idea that all of these researchers would have contracted Covid and present with symptoms specific/indicative of Covid is absurd. The chances of that must be infinitesimally small. If they had the typical, flu- and cold-like symptoms that most people experience…

> Covid very rarely results in severe symptoms for middle aged adults Correct, but I don't recall this being the narrative the media were following in 2020, despite stuff like this: "After nearly 45,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales, we can see that people of different ages have been exposed to dramatically differing risks. Fatalities among school-children have been remarkably low. Taking women aged 30–34 as an e…

Aggregate death numbers spiked and not just the old. Death risk from Covid might mirror age related risk but, but, but it is on top of it.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#720

Post by dumbfounder »

mullingitover wrote: post #569
memefrog wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said they may have done so and that there's a chance it was intentional, which is entirely true and quite a reasonable thing to say. He acknowledges that it's unlikely, and he doesn't think that they would do that or that they did. But it is absolutely possible . You'd have to be crazy to think it wasn't possible. The same article says: > As the pandemic began spreading in earnest in the United States, President T…

It took me five seconds of googling to find the president floating that theory. To say nobody is accusing China of using Covid as a bioweapon is a howler - we have a whole community of cranks who are saying there's a conspiracy to conceal the fact Earth is flat, of course there are legions of cranks saying Covid was spread on purpose. It took me five more seconds of googling and I found "Nearly 30% think China likely…

Do I think China did this on purpose? No. Was it a very effective economic weapon? Yes. Should we be on the lookout for others trying to do this on purpose? Hell yes. Just because you’re paranoid…
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