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I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

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Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#181

Post by misnome »

dkarras wrote: post #177
rpastuszak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ChatGPT is excellent at writing "fluffy" pieces full of empathy, compassion, PR talk, politician speech, I think you're putting a bunch of completely different things in the same basket. Making the text more fluffy will not make it more empathetic, not only (but mainly) because there isn't anyone to empathise with the respondent. Our bullshit receptors are good spotting dishonesty, so it'll just sound cringe, putti…

>Making the text more fluffy will not make it more empathetic, Of course not, but empathy in communication (not in action) is full of fluff. It almost requires it. >Our bullshit receptors are good spotting dishonesty, so it'll just sound cringe All "genuine" affirmation for the sake of empathy sounds cringe to me. I'd rather the doctor devoted their time to doing their job well instead of trying to make someone feel…

> I'd rather the doctor devoted their time to doing their job well instead of trying to make someone feel heard and validated

Not doing this can make the job actively harder.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#182

Post by dkarras »

basisword wrote: post #137
heliodor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is right on point though: ChatGPT is excellent at writing "fluffy" pieces full of empathy, compassion, PR talk, politician speech, and any other wordy flavor you need. As an engineer who is unable to produce such writing, this tool is quite helpful!

Helpful until someone reading your “writing” realises it’s AI and that you’re a robot who needs AI to write something with empathy or compassion. I’d much rather hear someone’s really voice in their writing than something false. It reminds me of people in certain places who are fake nice and fake positive 100% of the time. It’s draining to be around them.

It is also draining to be around people that always require feeling heard and validated or else they get crabby. Two sides to everything. The doc in this story probably does not require AI to write something compassionate. He simply does not have the bandwidth to do it while juggling critical patients and their family while they are not taking no for an answer and insisting on inappropriate treatment.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#183

Post by williamcotton »

mattkrause wrote: post #178
williamcotton wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to learn how to write concisely.

You can learn to write concisely.

I see what you’re trying to do there but you should have said “one” instead of “you” to have the same effect!

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#184

Post by throwaway426079 »

heliodor wrote: post #67
firebirdn99 wrote: post #44

This really feels farcical, and kind of like vc bros hyping up a product. Considering this was a serious issue of life and death of a patient, it was surprising how it read like a prank or like the scene from Harold and Kumar, where Kumar plays a fake doctor and saves an ER patient through sheer luck. I know some doctors are full of baloney but c'mon. I really hope maybe that we create better doctors that have a lot…

The concept is right on point though: ChatGPT is excellent at writing "fluffy" pieces full of empathy, compassion, PR talk, politician speech, and any other wordy flavor you need. As an engineer who is unable to produce such writing, this tool is quite helpful!

That makes sense assuming engineers don't need to practice this skill very often. But doctors need to do fluffy, compassionate every shift.

Nothing about the story makes sense. Doctors and nurses say these kinds of things to patients every day (I'm an EMT, I've watched them do it and I do it myself). I'm seriously wondering if the relatives were responding to the fact that the clinician was visibly reading from a piece of paper and that somehow made it more 'official'.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#185

Post by dkarras »

bohner wrote: post #85
Spooky23 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some specialties attract different personalities. If you’ve ever been in a hospital setting around a lot of neuro residents, many of them will present… oddly. It’s a feature. Likewise, a lot of ER docs are kinda adrenaline people who are great at triage and quickly stabilizing you, but maybe not so much good at relating with people. That’s a feature — you don’t need a soft touch dealing with trauma. If ChatGPT can he…

Have worked with many poor communicators and outright idiots but there is virtually no one graduating a decent medical school with native speaker skills that cant explain in simple terms why giving more fluids to someone that is overloaded with fluid is a bad idea (oh and without using any jargon like edema or diuresis, another thing missing in this whole farce, any 1st year let alone decent attending will explain cl…

You can explain it in simple terms. Does not mean they'll listen or agree. Some people just want to feel validated, and they need it repeatedly.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#186

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

Two shocking things about this article:

The first: with his doctor hat on, he should understand that the value is the piece of paper and reading from it consistently to relatives who may have mild cognitive impairment.

ChatGPT wrote essentially identical content to the words he'd been delivering himself.

The professionally responsible thing to do would have been to type up or get someone to type up his _actual words_, print those out, and sign his name to them.

He is -- for marketing hype cycle reasons -- projecting magic onto AI and ChatGPT when anyone who has ever known anyone close with mild cognitive impairment knows that the consistent, calmly repeated message is the magic.

This is really irresponsible at worst, and empty, AI-hopey-changey nonsense at best.

The second: everyone here suggesting that this is a valid or appropriate or even appealing use of AI.

Look: if you can't do empathy (and not all of us can), hire an actual person who can do empathy! Make that their job, support them in it, celebrate their ability to do it and reward them properly. They are worthwhile people do who important jobs.

Don't give the job to an AI to produce a fake veneer of empathy.

If you can't understand why faking and automating empathy is not a substitute for actually trying to find real empathy in a role where someone could be an effective emotional bridge between two worlds, and if you can't see that this kind of bland/BS/automated sincerity application of AI is really toxic, I don't know what to say to you.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#187

Post by catchnear4321 »

bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #186

Two shocking things about this article: The first: with his doctor hat on, he should understand that the value is the piece of paper and reading from it consistently to relatives who may have mild cognitive impairment. ChatGPT wrote essentially identical content to the words he'd been delivering himself. The professionally responsible thing to do would have been to type up or get someone to type up his _actual words_…

the flip side of this is that the model acts as a universal translator. not just for language but also for emotional valence and context.

are you a doctor? worked in an er? there are a lot of strong words about what doctors should and shouldn’t do, with regard to empathy and compassion. there is a shocking lack of compassion or empathy in the very words demanding them.

(there is also a rather large assumption that the doctor would individually be able to hire someone on a whim, to talk nice to people. in an er?)

the value of the paper, of the words, is that it helped bridge a recognized communication divide. the purpose? a combination of compassion and treatment. help the well-meaning elderly children understand well enough to keep them from indirectly killing their mother.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#188

Post by catchnear4321 »

mnky9800n wrote: post #127
seabombs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is a doctor, but also an executive at a health-focused VC fund, with several AI companies in it's portfolio. Helpful context to have before reading his article I think.

So literally it is impossible to know what, if anything, actually happened because this is just more ai Hypebeast trash.

always has been

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#189

Post by Applejinx »

I'd bet money that the Medium article has also been, in part, rewritten by ChatGPT.

Here's why: the story being told is that of a doctor, needing to communicate, being able to get through to 'regular folks' through talking down to them using ChatGPT (which is actually well suited to that task, once you acknowledge that hallucination can also mean losing stuff in translation).

Then, the article itself, including the description of the loving family's reaction, is VERY characteristic of the way ChatGPT 'talks down'. It's hallucinatory happytalk that paints with a very broad brush, and delivers not the tone you want, but an abstracted 'popularized' tone likely to convince large numbers of stupid and gullible people.

That tone's hard to miss, and it's popping out all over the article.

Points for committing to the bit. However, what's pictured is clearly a level of Hell, or possibly an out-take from Idiocracy. You won't believe what happened next! :D

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#190

Post by dsr_ »

kelnos wrote: post #96
firebirdn99 wrote: post #44

This really feels farcical, and kind of like vc bros hyping up a product. Considering this was a serious issue of life and death of a patient, it was surprising how it read like a prank or like the scene from Harold and Kumar, where Kumar plays a fake doctor and saves an ER patient through sheer luck. I know some doctors are full of baloney but c'mon. I really hope maybe that we create better doctors that have a lot…

Ironically, your comment about the state of doctors is quite lacking in empathy for the doctors themselves. Regardless of whether or not this article is a fake, I think you don't quite understand how overworked most doctors are, and how little time they have been given per patient to take care of what needs to be done.

Remember that the AMA has been limiting the supply of doctors in order to maintain high wages, and the working conditions for interns/residents amounts to hazing.
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