http://www.kuro5hin.org/ had ads that you can comment on etc. but it never worked out. These new ads are a step forward with the targeting system.
Still, I'd like to know how many people actually care about seeing ads.
Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
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Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#42http://www.kuro5hin.org/ had ads that you can comment on etc. but it never worked out. These new ads are a step forward with the targeting system. Still, I'd like to know how many people actually care about seeing ads.
Reddit too, also failed there as far as I can tell: http://ads.reddit.com/
This doesn't mean it wouldn't work across a large set of sites though. Aggregating responses and correlating them should produce really effective targeting.
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#43I hate ads. Everyone hates ads. Why would we take what is largely an automated process (extracting information from a site to guide ads), and make humans do it? With the idea to "make something people want", isn't it a bad idea to make something a minority want and the vast majority will fight against? Especially considering the majority's clicks are all that matter.
When they say they will make something people want, they mean the advertisers. Besides, this is the Internet. Ads are here to stay, so why not make them suck less than Google's Adsense?
My point is that advertisers will like this, content creators might like this if they get more money, but the USERS of the site will not like it. I'm not saying this is worse than other image ads, though it is presumptuous to try to waste my time in the process of trying to sell me something.
"Ads are here to stay"
This isn't true. Ads needn't dominate the way people make money on the web.
They certainly suck more than text ads.
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, what you're saying is "Who would want to be rewarded based on performance, given that some people won't perform well?" I guess I might be irate if I said "Let my customers tell me how good my ads are," and the answer was "They suck," but wouldn't I be better off knowing, or at least having the option to know?
Yes, a reasonable person would be glad to have such feedback, but I was more curious of the Marketing Management reaction who would look at their ad click-through's and notice that they aren't that high for a service they just paid money for, or that they're ads aren't even being viewed anywhere at all. I was just asking how an online advertising service, especially a small startup, handle such things.
But what about the marketing manager's manager. If the marketing guy says "We could use this new ad service -- but we'll only get clicks if users like our ads, and that's not going to work out well for us," he'd deserve to lose his job.
Nobody who says "the more accurately you judge my efforts, the worse off I'll be" is worth keeping around.
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. The haters won't down-vote. They just won't click at all.
That's still a piece of information though, especially if the same user has actively down-voted other items.
There is no useful information gained if people never touch the system. Clearly non-downvoting means something for people who periodically downvote. But the way I plan to use the service is ... not at all.
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#46I hate ads. Everyone hates ads. Why would we take what is largely an automated process (extracting information from a site to guide ads), and make humans do it? With the idea to "make something people want", isn't it a bad idea to make something a minority want and the vast majority will fight against? Especially considering the majority's clicks are all that matter.
Hallo Ivan! The issue for us is that the automated process in place Does Not Work. For you, if you don't interact with the system at all, we just treat the site you're at as an aggregate "user" and guess what you'll like that way. We think that's better than just guessing based on the site content. -Luke
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#47I hate ads. Everyone hates ads. Why would we take what is largely an automated process (extracting information from a site to guide ads), and make humans do it? With the idea to "make something people want", isn't it a bad idea to make something a minority want and the vast majority will fight against? Especially considering the majority's clicks are all that matter.
Hallo Ivan! The issue for us is that the automated process in place Does Not Work. For you, if you don't interact with the system at all, we just treat the site you're at as an aggregate "user" and guess what you'll like that way. We think that's better than just guessing based on the site content. -Luke
Good luck!
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#48I hate ads. Everyone hates ads. Why would we take what is largely an automated process (extracting information from a site to guide ads), and make humans do it? With the idea to "make something people want", isn't it a bad idea to make something a minority want and the vast majority will fight against? Especially considering the majority's clicks are all that matter.
I hate ads. I ignore most of them, but distracting animated ads get adblocked. If adpinion gives ad-haters an easier way to make an ad disappear, adblock will get used less and they'll get more information.
(Even though I hate ads I think they have their place.)
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, a reasonable person would be glad to have such feedback, but I was more curious of the Marketing Management reaction who would look at their ad click-through's and notice that they aren't that high for a service they just paid money for, or that they're ads aren't even being viewed anywhere at all. I was just asking how an online advertising service, especially a small startup, handle such things.
But what about the marketing manager's manager. If the marketing guy says "We could use this new ad service -- but we'll only get clicks if users like our ads, and that's not going to work out well for us," he'd deserve to lose his job. Nobody who says "the more accurately you judge my efforts, the worse off I'll be" is worth keeping around.
[deleted]
Re: Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, a reasonable person would be glad to have such feedback, but I was more curious of the Marketing Management reaction who would look at their ad click-through's and notice that they aren't that high for a service they just paid money for, or that they're ads aren't even being viewed anywhere at all. I was just asking how an online advertising service, especially a small startup, handle such things.
But what about the marketing manager's manager. If the marketing guy says "We could use this new ad service -- but we'll only get clicks if users like our ads, and that's not going to work out well for us," he'd deserve to lose his job. Nobody who says "the more accurately you judge my efforts, the worse off I'll be" is worth keeping around.
I was trying to spark conversation along a different line of dialog, but maybe I have been misunderstood. Yes, this new ad system is a great idea - instant feedback and better, more specific targeting for individual websites and viewers, and any ad/marketing group should love it. Yet a certain amount of unpredictability remains, especially for ad click-through rates, and it is this that I wanted to follow.
Right now, it is relatively easy for a company to sign up for an online advertising service with some minimal guaranteed ad views. From that companies can project future earnings based on their click through and purchase rates, even if their ads are terrible, and nobody except for 0.1% click, they at least have a base line for money coming in that is fairly reliable. This system, however bad for the end users experience, is extremely helpful for the businesses planning and forecasting. Now, the CFO can say, 'We're going to have at least this much money!', and Net Ops groups can say, 'Well that means we'll probably need this much bandwidth!', and the entire business can some-what get along.
Then, Adpinion steps in. Suddenly, Advertising/Marketing can't predict how much, or even if, they'll be able to meet previous projections, projections are useless at this point. Now the CFO can't say if the company will be able to meet market predictions, and the Net Ops guys will be in the dark about if they'll suddenly be crushed by users' bandwidth requests or that they've over allocated bandwidth and they're now stuck with some fat pipes that are just getting spam messages. Well, this is all a little dire, but the point is that Adpinion can create contentions in a business.
Ah! But here is what I wanted to follow through on - even if Adpinion can create unpredictability in long running advertising strategies, the real win here would be for a one-two punch with traditional online advertising venues. A business could market test half their advertising revenue, find what works and then send it through traditional online ad streams. Now that business can up their average click rate by quickly market testing ads, and they can make their advertising team hungry and on-edge about what how well that day/week/months' ad scheme performed. And this is where Adpinion wins, for me. From an overall business perspective, outside of a localized ad/marketing department, it would provide such a benefit to any company that they would be senseless not to use it.