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I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

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Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#101

Post by firebirdn99 »

heliodor wrote: post #67
firebirdn99 wrote: post #44

This really feels farcical, and kind of like vc bros hyping up a product. Considering this was a serious issue of life and death of a patient, it was surprising how it read like a prank or like the scene from Harold and Kumar, where Kumar plays a fake doctor and saves an ER patient through sheer luck. I know some doctors are full of baloney but c'mon. I really hope maybe that we create better doctors that have a lot…

The concept is right on point though: ChatGPT is excellent at writing "fluffy" pieces full of empathy, compassion, PR talk, politician speech, and any other wordy flavor you need. As an engineer who is unable to produce such writing, this tool is quite helpful!

Many comments are saying it's helpful. But what happens when it's widespread, everyone crafting Hallmark type empathic messages to everyone. Or once everyone has bots, then most likely they will all be sent straight to spam or something. We will be inundated with such messaging.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#102

Post by pcurve »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #82
burnished wrote: post #74

I'm having a hard time buying this anecdote. Not even the bit where its implied that multiple people read the same script multiple times and that worked for soothing people, but the actual content of the before and after; the gpt version doesn't explain it any differently and the 'compassionate' writing was absurd. My most charitable interpretation is that the anecdote is true but the article itself was written by so…

I’m really not trying to be inflammatory when I say this, but highly technical professions that have intense training requirements for entry attract a disproportionate amount of people with social development issues, ranging from intense self-diagnosed “introversion” to full blown developmental disorders like autism/aspergers. There’s plenty of this in software development, but medicine takes it to the next level. Th…

"medicine takes it to the next level"

I chuckled at this because I confirm this be true among my acquaintances and theirs who are doctors.

I hate to stereotype, and generally, they're all decent people. But almost all of them have undercurrent of arrogance that permeates through despite their best attempt to keep it in check. It's pretty funny.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#103

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

firebirdn99 wrote: post #100
protastus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it. I've used chatgpt for inspiration on how to craft difficult messages with empathy. I've been managing people for a long time and could've done it independently, but it's good to get help. It can be tough to express empathy when exhausted after a long day of urgent demands and responsibilities. This is no different than asking chatgpt to draft code that I could otherwise write from scratch. It's like hav…

Now it feels kind of neat, and maybe works when others are reading well crafted messages. What happens when everyone has a bot, and a bot is talking to a bot, because I for one, don't want to be sent or fall for emotionally manipulative messages, or that try to sound empathetic, maybe even are empathetic. When this type of messaging is so widespread, I wonder what will happen. I think people will ignore most of this…

Will it really be a difference? Corporate speak is already a thing, people already feign emotions and sympathy. Sure, this is more, but it feels to me like more of the same; I don't think it even magnifies the problem that much.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#104

Post by pcurve »

brigandish wrote: post #38

Who is surprised that in a match between a doctor's bedside manner and a machine's that a machine wins? The cold metal of a machine is nothing next to the coldness of a doctor's heart! ;)

Reminded me of this scene where Eric Dale was getting let go and HR was regurgitating canned script.

https://youtu.be/zn2Xf9hAFcE?t=151

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#105

Post by fastball »

firebirdn99 wrote: post #101
heliodor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is right on point though: ChatGPT is excellent at writing "fluffy" pieces full of empathy, compassion, PR talk, politician speech, and any other wordy flavor you need. As an engineer who is unable to produce such writing, this tool is quite helpful!

Many comments are saying it's helpful. But what happens when it's widespread, everyone crafting Hallmark type empathic messages to everyone. Or once everyone has bots, then most likely they will all be sent straight to spam or something. We will be inundated with such messaging.

And? What is wrong with being inundated with empathy?

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#106

Post by kodah »

firebirdn99 wrote: post #44

This really feels farcical, and kind of like vc bros hyping up a product. Considering this was a serious issue of life and death of a patient, it was surprising how it read like a prank or like the scene from Harold and Kumar, where Kumar plays a fake doctor and saves an ER patient through sheer luck. I know some doctors are full of baloney but c'mon. I really hope maybe that we create better doctors that have a lot…

Fake or not, people are incorporating ChatGPT into their work. We had a pipeline break today and when we looked at the PR that introduced the change it was in the PR notes that the tooling configuration was derived from a ChatGPT prompt. What do you even say or do about that?

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#107

Post by bastardoperator »

TL;DR

ChatGPT: "using empathy, tell the family why an iv is bad for someone with fluids in their lungs, keep it short and concise"

"I understand your concerns. It's tough to see a loved one struggling. When there's fluid in the lungs, adding more fluid to the body via IV can make the problem worse. It's like adding more water to a cup that's already overflowing. The body needs to remove excess fluid, not add more. Your loved one's healthcare team is making decisions to help, not harm. Please keep asking questions – it's important to understand the process. We're all here with the same goal: to ensure the best possible care for your family member."

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#108

Post by fastball »

robbrown451 wrote: post #90
chocolatkey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anyone actually think that chat gpt succeeds at rewriting things 'compassionately' or 'more intelligently'? I've seen non-native English speakers (co-worker) use it to write lengthy apologies to customers, and I (native speaker) think it sounds over the top sincere and dramatic, especially when the same person tends to talk in a completely different manner. I believe this story, because the customer in this ca…

"and I (native speaker) think it sounds over the top sincere and dramatic, especially when the same person tends to talk in a completely different manner." Of course, you can actually tell ChatGPT to change its style and mannerisms. Here's an example when I was experimenting with this. It went a bit over the top in the other direction, but only because I was so explicit about asking to to be casual. https://chat.open…

It's even pretty good at doing this multi-lingually. I live in Indonesia, and there is a sort of dialect used by various people from Jakarta that basically combines Indonesian and English in a way that is quite recognizeable when you hear it.

The other day I asked ChatGPT to answer a question I had in Indonesian, and the answer was very formal (Google Translate generally has the same problem – the translations it gives you are way too formal for most speech). So I asked it to rephrase in this Jakartan slang it and did very well.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#109

Post by nevi-me »

kodah wrote: post #106
firebirdn99 wrote: post #44

This really feels farcical, and kind of like vc bros hyping up a product. Considering this was a serious issue of life and death of a patient, it was surprising how it read like a prank or like the scene from Harold and Kumar, where Kumar plays a fake doctor and saves an ER patient through sheer luck. I know some doctors are full of baloney but c'mon. I really hope maybe that we create better doctors that have a lot…

Fake or not, people are incorporating ChatGPT into their work. We had a pipeline break today and when we looked at the PR that introduced the change it was in the PR notes that the tooling configuration was derived from a ChatGPT prompt. What do you even say or do about that?

I've been embarrassed by a Copilot code snippet that I proofread to seem correct, but was incorrect due to some subtle comparison logic.

I can only imagine the risks in professions that aren't dealing with logic that has a very finite list of options or where the answers AI produce require researched effort to validate.

It's probably worse in law if you're given a case reference as you're professionally supposed to read the document in substance to not be muddled by selective quoting, then if it's from a foreign jurisdiction you have to also check if it's applicable to you.

Re: I’m an ER doctor. Here’s how I’m already using ChatGPT to help treat patients

#110

Post by bohner »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #93
bohner wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a kernel of truth to this, disproportionate sure, but I think majority is a bit over the top. There are plenty in medicine aware of this, antisocial behavior and toxicity in general, there’s a lot of crying that goes on from medical school throughout training. You can easily have a rich social life throughout training but the process doesn’t effectively filter out the trainwrecks either.

> You can easily have a rich social life throughout training This is the complete opposite of my experience, and I’d be very surprised if there were any med schools where this was legitimately possible. When my wife was in med school she had about 40 hours of course work per week, and the curriculum was so dense that she spent nearly all the rest of her time studying. She worked (a job) 10 hours a week during med sch…

> This is the complete opposite of my experience, and I’d be very surprised if there were any med schools where this was legitimately possible.

Well then your experience is limited.

Most people don’t work a job in medical school, so that’s time right there. Also the format of US medical school has changed considerably in the last 20 years. There is plenty of free time in the preclinical years, very few attend lecture (preferring to use a number of commercial review/prep product), there are usually only a few hours a week of mandatory team based learning groups and some hours of labs, this format is overwhelmingly common now in the US. Time management is also a large factor, some are better prepared to deal with the gauntlet. Clinical years will have periods of intensity but usually for few week stretches, surgery clerkship might be intense, but psychiatry which is also at least 6 weeks will often be close to 9 to 5 with free weekends or even less. Time during residency training is extremely specialty and program dependent. Is your wife OB/GYN or general surgery, that’s very different than medicine, anesthesia or dermatology.

> Nearly all of her peers at med school had these characteristics, if somebody told me that 90% of doctors had some form of autism, I really wouldn’t have a hard time believing it.

Yeah whatever. There’s a lot of pricks and socially awkward people in medicine but a majority are primarily still interested in going into a service oriented industry working with people.

Just because some idiot with something to sell posts an apocryphal story about ChatGPT doesn’t prove your point.

Having worked in both tech and medicine your take is just selection bias and a limited view. Such a verbose response to say very little as well.

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