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San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

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Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#151

Post by [deleted] »

mAritz wrote: post #141
nubb wrote: post #25

everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. at some point enough is enough and they gotta go. i think it’s a juvenile attitude to look down your nose at the endless victims and tell them to just be more understanding of the hardships the homeless face.

Let's say we go with your dystopian wishes and round them all up and ship them off to some other place - with all the problems that then causes just ignored. Someone now loses their home after that - let's say to a fire and they didn't have it insured for that because the house insurance market is either dysfunctional or close to it in some parts of the US. You now have 1 homeless person again. Do you also ship them…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#152

Post by 0xB31B1B »

sangnoir wrote: post #76
0xB31B1B wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

> Library wifi is not a homeless service. Correct, it's a service for everyone - including the homeless. A world where library doors are closed to some people is a world that has lost its way. Do homeless people have the same rights as everyone else? Granted, they may not readily afford lawyers, but some of the restrictions you're implying trample in their freedom of movement.

we're far far beyond "trampling on freedom of movement" in SF. We need to enforce basic laws and pro social behaviors like "don't poop on the street", "dont smoke meth within 500 feet of an elementary school", "don't leave a giant pile of poop encrusted needles on the sidewalk".

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#153

Post by 0xB31B1B »

gumby wrote: post #92
meetingthrower wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but bedding down outside the library at night so you can get free wifi is antisocial behavior. Why should we invest this much in our public spaces and then effectively give them away? I wouldnt want somebody sleeping next to my house so he could get WiFi. Public spaces are ours. Don't get me wrong. I think we should make massive investments in trying to solve the homeless problem, but giving away our public co…

> Why should we invest this much in our public spaces and then effectively give them away? I wouldnt want somebody sleeping next to my house so he could get WiFi. Public spaces are ours. “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” ― Anatole France

There were a few hundred shelter beds available last night in SF to anyone who wanted to sleep indoors. The problem is the people who sleep outside the library don't want to sleep in shelter, because the shelters don't allow drug use. The people sleeping outside the library want to get high and we do not have an effective means to compel people into shelter or treatment.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#154

Post by 0xB31B1B »

sangnoir wrote: post #106
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why segregate a service that's already meant for everyone? Because one group denies it to others. In New York, the potent image is that of a homeless person obviously going through a mental health issue, who hasn’t bathed in what smells like weeks, sitting in a subway car on their own. (When I was younger and naïve, I went into one such car and tried to talk to them. I had a handful of what I’ll pretend was a smell…

How about shoring up the social safety net like other developed countries? The length at which Americans go to ignore the homeless (until they are in close physical proximity) is astounding. And most "solutions" are to keep the homeless out of sight without doing anything about their circumstances.

San Francisco, where this article is about, is spending more than 75k USD per homeless person per year on homeless services. The issues is not a lack of compassion of city residents or the collective residents of the city shouting "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" to anyone in a precarious position. We have been increasing taxes and spending every year as long as I have been here to help "fix the homeless problem" and it keeps getting worse. At the limit, I would prefer we spend our marginal incoming tax dollar on education and schooling for the children of the city, not on non sober permanent housing for out of town meth heads who just want to get high. Doubling down in this issue, you have a huge portion of the non chronically homeless people who are just on tough times who completely avoid the homeless services in the city because of the legitimate issue that a single insane violent drug addict can have on on an entire homeless shelter or an entire 500 unit permanent supportive housing building. SF housed a few hundred people in the pandemic in an old 300 unit hotel and a few of the residents caused 20 million dollars in damage.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#155

Post by smugma »

neotrope wrote: post #150
damnesian wrote: post #2

>Neighbors of the library collaborated with the city to urge the library to turn off its Wi-Fi at night in hopes the Castro neighborhood’s unhoused population would move on. Theoretically, wifi access could help people move on by giving them the network access even old tech could use to look for jobs, living situations, long-lost relatives, access e-counseling and telehealth visits, etc. It's not the only thing the h…

> wifi access could help people This type of thinking is tone deaf and its the reason we're here. If all the homeless needed was wifi, this would have been solved long ago. It's unquestionably clear the city gov is forcing a wedge between it's residents and the crime, homelessness and business closures by failing to respond. Did you know the prostitution on Capp St is alive as ever? It's just less visible now that's…

I remember seeing prostitutes on Capp street (and Polk St) 15-20 years ago in the aughts. Not anymore. I routinely ride my bike with preschooler in tow on Capp at 8AM and 5PM and haven’t seen any in the past two years.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#156

Post by Tozen »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #58
notaustinpowers wrote: post #12

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

I doubt they want them dead. If I had to guess, I'd say they just want them gone. How many people would look the other way if we were talking putting homeless into death camps and mass murdering them, that I have no idea about.

That's part of the problem. The get out of my sight, go somewhere else mentality, can lead down a very dark and even more evil path.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#157

Post by notaustinpowers »

stickfigure wrote: post #123
notaustinpowers wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kick 'em while they're down right? How dare you, a public citizen, use public services!

Nobody is being denied public services; the WiFi works for everyone during daylight hours. It's just turned off at night to discourage people from sleeping there. They close and lock the library doors too.

We have loitering laws that would then go to prevent homeless people from using those services during daylight hours. My library requires you to have a drivers license and prove you have an address within that city/town to be able to use it. So a homeless person without a DL, or who never had an address in that city would not be allowed access. And could be arrested for loitering for just existing near a library during daylight hours.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#158

Post by muti »

neotrope wrote: post #150
damnesian wrote: post #2

>Neighbors of the library collaborated with the city to urge the library to turn off its Wi-Fi at night in hopes the Castro neighborhood’s unhoused population would move on. Theoretically, wifi access could help people move on by giving them the network access even old tech could use to look for jobs, living situations, long-lost relatives, access e-counseling and telehealth visits, etc. It's not the only thing the h…

> wifi access could help people This type of thinking is tone deaf and its the reason we're here. If all the homeless needed was wifi, this would have been solved long ago. It's unquestionably clear the city gov is forcing a wedge between it's residents and the crime, homelessness and business closures by failing to respond. Did you know the prostitution on Capp St is alive as ever? It's just less visible now that's…

No one said wifi is the only thing they need, of course that is absurd

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#159

Post by piloto_ciego »

nubb wrote: post #93
piloto_ciego wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

one day when you’re permanently disabled because a bum hit you with a wrench unprovoked, remember to apologize to them for putting them in that position.

That’s a bad faith non-sequitur.

How often do you think that’s actually happening. Hint: not often.

Have some freaking compassion dude. Do you have any data (anecdotal or otherwise) to support your world view?

It’s rough as hell to be homeless….

And for what it’s worth (though it’s none of your business), I am “differently abled” - not anyone’s fault I suppose, but I am. I fully grasp what it means to not be able to do things I used to do thank you. That shouldn’t change how I treat others. I’d be mad if someone did this to me, but being mad at all similar people because of it would be folly.

Show some compassion.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#160

Post by piloto_ciego »

mAritz wrote: post #141
nubb wrote: post #25

everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. at some point enough is enough and they gotta go. i think it’s a juvenile attitude to look down your nose at the endless victims and tell them to just be more understanding of the hardships the homeless face.

Let's say we go with your dystopian wishes and round them all up and ship them off to some other place - with all the problems that then causes just ignored. Someone now loses their home after that - let's say to a fire and they didn't have it insured for that because the house insurance market is either dysfunctional or close to it in some parts of the US. You now have 1 homeless person again. Do you also ship them…

Let’s be real, the world view informing this sort of carceral idea typically only has one solution, and usually it’s a “final” sort of one.

The goal is not to get rid of the homeless in the city, it’s to “get rid of them.” And -consciously or unconsciously- at its core, the goal is to have a group of weak people who are easy to oppress.

The rhetoric hasn’t basically changed in 90 years. It’s disgusting and frankly I’m shocked to see this sort of talk on HN.

Perhaps Reddit was running interference for us…

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